The Rocky Horror Picture Show (1975)

Do you know that we wanted to use this logo? This is against Richard Hartley's piano playing, I think. Of the 20th Century Fox theme. - Yes, maybe I will... We wanted to use that for the denouement. Ah. - Instead of the RKO sign. So that was interesting. Michael White and Lou Adler's names there, our producers. Yes, that's correct. - Erstwhile people. I'm rather... And now whose mouth do you think this might be? Ooh. M-m-m-mine. Yeah, it is. Now, interesting... - There we go. Course, when we did the stage play, it was you that sang this song. That's right. - And then they offered you the part of Magenta in the movie, and what did you say to them? I said-- well, they told me that I wasn't going to be able to sing the song 'cause they couldn't have an usherette open the film, so I'd lost my song "Science Fiction." And, um, I said, "Well, you can take your movie and shove it up your..." Where the sun don't shine. Yes. - Mm-hmm. And they were very amazed 'cause they'd taken me to a restaurant Yeah, yeah. - Jim Sharman. Always do it after lunch. Always tell them no after lunch. Yeah, after lunch. And I said I'm not interested. Don't want to do it. Then they took me round to John Goldstone, one of the other producers, round to his house to see the sets. They said, "No, please, Pat, come and see. Come and just have a look." And then they showed me the pink room, the laboratory. And then they showed me all the drawings of the costumes and whatever, whatever, whatever, and, um, I said, "I can't wait." "I'll begin tomorrow." I didn't mind about the song. Yeah, well, I didn't know anything about that until this moment in time and, uh... Well, I have blamed you for it ever since. Well, you see, I got along to the studio, and they'd done the backing tracks... Richard Hartley and the crew had done the backing tracks at Olympic Studios. I love my name dripping like that. Oh, yes. And... Sorry. It was a bit of a drip. And... - I said-- They said "We want you to sing the opening title song because you're the author of the show," and I said, "What do you mean, as a backing, guide vocal for Pat?" They went, "No, we want you to sing it." And, um, so I did, but until that moment in time, I had no idea that I was... Well, ladies and gentlemen, or whoever's listening, today is the first time this has been revealed in how many years? Oh, um, 25? So in all these years, I have begrudged you taking my song. And in all these years, I've begrudged you for being you and having that delightful mouth. Thank you. I mean, look, it's a wonderful mouth. One wonders, you know, oh, well, wonders, just wonders, really. Has your dentist seen this movie? Yes, I really wanted to give her a plug today. Veronica Morris. Because, really, she's been keeping my teeth in great order. This is marvelous. And Veronica'll be so pleased. This mouth, of course, is Brian Thomson's idea. It was the Man Ray photograph of the mouth and the sky is where he got that from. Yes, it... Is ita photograph or was it a painting? It's a photograph. - It's a photo. Lios Over Hollywood. Yeah. - Is that what it is? That's what it's called. It's over the Hollywood sign-- a mouth. Man Ray picture. - And this was the first mouth. I mean, I'd never seen a mouth this symbolic before. The Rolling Stones got a mouth after that, didn't they? Yeah, they got a mouth after. Not a mouth before. Bit mouthy. - A bit mouthy. No, no, and it was wonderful when they asked me to do this 'cause they asked me to do this mouth on the very last day of the film. Mm-hmm. Jim Sharman came up to me, it was a wrap, finished. We'd done it, and he came up and said, "We've got an idea about this mouth." Yeah. - "And will you do it?" And they painted all your skin black. Yes, they did, And I went out to Elstree Studios... - But your timing was perfect. I mean, your lip-sync is fantastic. Yes, well, I'm good at that. And I sort of know how you do things. So, uh, so we... We, uh... Ramon Gow. Look, the hairdresser, Ramon Gow. We'll talk about Ramon a little bit later on. Yes, he was wonderful. - Yeah. He kept us happy. Did he keep you happy? And Pierre. Pierre did the makeup, didn't he? Pierre La Roche. Oh, God. He did Bowie's makeup. You know, for what was that Bowie thing? You know, when he had the makeup. - When did Bowie never have makeup? All right, with Bowie. Ziggy Stardust. Yes, and it was fantastic. And I thought Guy La Roche will give me the most fantastic face in the world. And he looked at me, and he said, he gave me no bones... No, Pierre La Roche. - Pierre. Pierre La Roche. Guy de la Roche is... - I beg your pardon. Pierre La Roche. And I was so shocked that he just said, "We're going to totally whiten the face." And what-- here we are. And what-- here we are. And what-- here we are. The fade into the cross there. - Fade into the cross, yeah. And down the old... And now this is interesting 'cause this was just a facade, wasn't it? That little room-- There's a little room on stilts behind that door. Just tiny little room. There's darling Henry Woolf. He's just such a darling friend. A great, um, Pinter. Pierre Bedenes in the front here. Now, Perry was the boyfriend of Brian Thomson at the time. Uh, we should say... that little girl there, where is she? She's gone now, but that was... what's her name? She was the photographer that went out with Prince Andrew for a while. What was the name? - Koo Stark. Koo Stark there, yeah. She's in the back there. She's there. Uh, I was gonna point at the screen as if that made any difference. Yes, -Gaye Brown. There's Pierre. And Henry. - And Henry. Henry was in my house the other evening. He now teaches in Saskatchewan. Yeah. He's been over here doing the Harold Pinter plays, hasn't he? That's right. He was in the first play that Pinter wrote. He made him write it, actually. Well, there they are. - There's our Brad. The two lads-- so very butch. Ouch, that hurt. And there she is, Susan Sarandon. We didn't know either of these people when they arrived, did we? No, we didn't, but they... - Weren't familiar with their background. Although he'd been doing Grease on Broadway. Great dancer, great legs. But it was wonderful. - Wonderful. There's my wife there jumping up and down. My ex-wife. My first wife. Is it Kimi? - Yes, in that little plaid dress there. Yes, and that lovely handbag. - With the bangs. Yes. Gorgeous. And this is Rufus Thomas, I think, driving the car. Rufus was with the-- there he is. He was with The Living Theatre for some years. He choreographed Jesus Christ Superstar in its first British incarnation. Gosh. Such class we had in this. Oh, yeah, we were all, yes, very groovy. - I remember those two. Now there's us in the background being American Gothic. Yes, which was such a surprise to me, and it was freezing cold that day. And I swore I'd never talk about the cold again on this film... We were walking to that set the first day we ever walked to that set, and we'd smoked something rather exotic. And I'd never smoked before. - No, no. Richard really led me into really bad ways. It was a bit difficult clinging on to reality, wasn't it? It was wonderful. I loved it. Ah, there we go. - There's our signs. In the graveyard. - "Denton." "The Home of Happiness." "Dammit Janet." "Dammit Janet." "Dammit Janet." She looked very pretty. Sue Blane did some wonderful costumes, and they've really hung on, even though we do the stage show 20... well, it's longer than 25 years from the movie, the stage show. But we still use Sue's designs. She reinvents them, and it's still the same kind of look. Well, I must say, the thing... she's stunning-- is at the time... I demand that Sue Blane invented punk, and this film invented punk. And down the road was Vivienne Westwood with a shop called Sex, and she thought she'd started it, but no, sorry. She'd copied us from up the road. We were on the stage at the time. I think there's a certain amount of truth in what you say. I think we were a precursor of Malcolm McLaren and Vivienne. That's correct. - But then again, you say, as Coco Chanel said, "Anyone who thinks they're original has got no sense of history." 2 If there's one fool for you Then lamit > Janet 2 I've one thing to say And that's damn it, Janet > Now look at that heart there. I want you to see that heart there, 'cause when we go back and rub it out, I think this is... Maybe it's the same heart. I thought it was a different one. Maybe they got it... There's a boom microphone shadow we'll see, I think, soon. Somewhere out there. - Why do you point out the faults? Well, why not? You know... I mean, that's what the fans do. - Do they? Yes. Oh, look, she dropped it. What a shame. Wasn't she meant to? I have no idea. - Or was she not? Now, this is interesting. This room, we could only afford this end and the other end. The altar end, and we didn't have any sides to the room, so we could only shoot it looking this way or looking the other way. We couldn't pan around 'cause there were no sides to this room. 'Cause we didn't have enough money. So there we go, you see, walking towards camera without background. Good heavens. And walking away from camera to there, but there were no sides. > Oh, Janet 2 For you? 2 I love you too } They were very good, these two, weren't they? When you consider we'd been doing this for the show... We were like a family, and they came in, and they joined in, like, so easily, so quickly. I find them astonishing. This must be... I don't want to go into detail, but it's a very small coffin, isn't it? Oh. - One does wonder. About what? Could have been a rabbit in there probably. Well, every day was a great surprise to me on Rocky Horror. I never knew what was going to happen next. Yeah, me neither. I mean, I didn't know what even American Gothic was. Till I saw the painting in the hall a few days later. I thought, "Why am I dressed like this?" Were you not familiar with that picture? - No. There we are... three good-looking people. And those opticals were rather good I thought. And those opticals were rather good I thought. And those opticals were rather good I thought. They really were mechanically derived by... But, you know, today, of course, you'd have optical wipes and all sorts of things with video. There's dear Charles Gray who's departed from us recently. Yes, Charlie has parted from us. And I loved it when you said to me it'd be wonderful if you and I were Charles Gray and Ava Gardner. We could visit each other often. Yes. - 'Cause they were great friends. They lived next door to each other. And I thought they've both gone. So we've got to now move into the same street. I think they're probably on a similar street in the sky somewhere doing the same things.

And Sinatra phoning every day. Yeah, did Sinatra... - Phone Ava every day? Did he? - Yeah. Heavens to Murgatroyd. There's the lovely Jonathan Adams who was our original narrator. Brilliant. Yes. - Plays Dr. Scott in this movie. And Brian Thomson used to put in hidden detail in those things, so there would be stuff inside that file. There might have even been stuff in those files behind him there. In that it was relative, but nobody was ever going to see. No. Well, to me, Brian Thomson's set was astonishing. It was unbelievable, and I've just been to see he King and /... Mm-hmm. - ...and the set he's just done for that. I adored it. - Yes, good, is it? Mm-hmm. Pity about the... - Sumptuous. Nah, nah, nah. - What? I didn't say anything. Nothing. You didn't say a thing. - Never heard a dicky bird there. Yeah. What a charming person. He'll be remembered in my will, actually.

Oh, look. Nice car, that, that woodie. Yes, and what was the tape playing? Was it Nixon? Nixon's-- which I... I don't like that speech being played, actually because it locks the movie into a time frame. I thought it was terribly clever. And that late November evening wasn't in time with Nixon's speech. Speech. And, you know, there's lots of things. Now we see this motorcyclist here. Those people who played Transylvanians were on the back of those motorbikes. They would have to go to the studio this very night, dress up, put all their Transylvanian gear on, and then put motorbike leathers on as well. Yeah. - And then go out on these motorbikes. They didn't drive them themselves. No, no. They had motorcyclists. They paid pillion passengers. Yeah. And, as Ramon Gow said, you know, I said, "Why are they coming in to do this? It could be anybody wet in the dark. And he said, "Could be a gorilla with a pipe, luv." Gorilla with a pipe? But I'll never forget the first day I saw the Transylvanians, 'cause they were rehearsing in a room in the house. And we didn't have Transylvanians in the play, and suddenly this door was open, and I don't want politically noncorrect, but it was so freaky because they were freaks. Sorry. - As indeed we all are. No, speak for yourself. And in the amazement of tall, small, fat, thin, you Know... You lost a sense of norms, you do. Sense of center. Yes, and I saw all these people dancing doing the "Time Warp," and I almost collapsed. I couldn't believe it. I thought... Because I didn't know they were going to be in this. I didn't know there was a cast of Transylvanians. No. - No. Well, when I went into the room and David Toguri was rehearsing them, Well, when I went into the room and David Toguri was rehearsing them, Well, when I went into the room and David Toguri was rehearsing them, and Barry Bostwick and Susan Sarandon was standing amongst these people, with hugely different, physically, SO very... I'll never work again for using the word "freak." It seemed to me that Susan and Barry, who most people would say are relatively good-looking human beings, seemed just as freakish. There was no standard. The standards had disappeared. Yes, that's what freakish-- yes, right. And that was interesting.

We've gone quiet. -We have, really. It was so gothic and so wonderful, the lightning strike in there. It's a good-looking movie. Jim Sharman's first major film as a director, and I think he pulled this together exceptionally well. But who was our light and cameraman Suschitzky? Yeah, Peter Suschitzky, the prince of darkness. The prince of darkness. I loved you for that. And I remember we weren't allowed to see the rushes. I don't Know if you ever knew that or if you ever... Well, I didn't really want to see them 'cause if you're acting, you shouldn't. 'cause if you're acting, you shouldn't. Rubbish! I have to see them. And Little Nell and I used to sneak in and see them all the time. And we did see the prince of darkness's work. Yes, it's good, isn't it? Oh, he's a good man. And this house, of course, has been... has been used in many, many films. I think 7he Innocents, you'll probably remember, with Deborah Kerr and Peter Wyngarde, that this was the same... We were talking about him earlier. Same house. - All right. Well, it's the Hammer house... It's just next door to Hammer Studios. It was a cheap and easy location, wasn't it? Yes. - Just across a paddock. Hello. Hi! My name's Brad Mayors. That was the other thing I was thinking about, so funny, you with your wonderful sort of English accent, and your "Hello." Hello. - Oh, hello. And then I decided I came from Transylvania, so I had a German accent. Tim Curry had a cheering, coarse, rude Kensington accent. Knightsbridge. - Knightsbridge. And Nellie had her Australian, and it was so puerile because nobody ever, ever discussed... It made no difference, did it? - Made no difference. Nobody's asked any questions about that. Come inside.

Fran Fullenwider, who's, of course, no longer with us. She's in heaven too. - Yeah, she is. She wrote me a wonderful letter when my husband died. What, recently? - Recently. Yeah, I'm sorry about that, Fran. And I remember she was in trouble one day, and Jim Sharman was very cross and crotchety. Well, we had to get the film done in two days, was it? How long did it take to make? - Six weeks. Six weeks. And I stopped the show. I remember your dear wife Kimi saying to me that... I stopped the show because Fran had a coughing fit or something, and couldn't go on, and he got very cross with her. So I sort of called a strike. I don't remember that, but it's been reminded. I'm quite... people were quite proud of that. You were very bold in those days. Fair. I was fair. - Fair. I thought you were red. - Honorable. Oh. - Oh. There's the beauty. - There he is, Mr. Curry. We've been-- we had a-- you know, when we... when we were casting this originally, we had a young man called Jonathan Kramer, American who is now also in heaven. That was... - Who isn't in heaven? We're lucky to be here. - Well, you and I. And... well, maybe we're luckier to be up there. Yeah. Kramer. And Jonathan was gonna do this part, and Tim came along... uh, to audition for us. And I'm afraid poor, old Jonathan... No. - ...never had a chance against this guy. But I heard it was Tim came in and said, "Let's rip it up." But did he say that? - I don't Know. I heard that, but I knew Tim before this. - Me too. Um, because I was working at the Royal Court Theatre and so was he. I was playing much bigger parts than him at the time, and he was so rather in awe of me, I believe. I'm sorry, but he did. He was very kind and admiring. - Mm-hmm. I knew him in Har, of course, because we were in Hairtogether. Of course. And I always thought he was the most beautiful thing on stage, seriously. Really? And when Jim and I were talking about putting this show on at the Royal Court, I went along looking for muscle men. I thought that would be a nice thing for me to do, is to go around the gyms and see if I could find a nice muscle man to play the part of Rocky. What a lovely way to spend your day. - Yes. And then I went into a little gym in one of those streets, George Street or Blandford Street off, um... Yeah. And who was there? And hang on, Baker Street. Baker Street, Blandford Street, George Street, yes. Yeah, you're a man of London. - And there was this gym. I went into this gym and there was very sweaty men, ugly sweaty men. You know, been pumping iron. And there was-- there was this young man who was living next door above a place called The Speed Queen. I know. The launderette. - This was a laundromat, yeah. And I thought, "That's very nice." And he asked me what I was doing, and I told him what I'd been up to. Sorry, was he in the gym? - No, he'd been-- he'd been living... He'd just come out of the flat, the apartment above The Speed Queen. So why did he speak to you? Oh, 'cause he knew you from Harr. - He went, "Hello, how are you?" I went, "Fine, and..." blah, blah, blah. - Yeah. "I've just been doing some casting." - Yeah, yeah, yeah. And next thing, he auditioned for us. Oh, God, another accident! Well, kind of. - Yes. Wonderful. And I auditioned for you singing a Jessie Matthews song. Yeah, "Over My Shoulder." It goes, One care... I told you not to play the piano because the music would put me off. I said, "I've got this." I surely would have done because I can't play the piano. I said to Richard, "Hardly." -

Well, that's what I felt. You see, for me, the pink room went on forever and ever. And it's brilliant, but God, it went on. Well, when you're working in a small area, it's very-- it's much more time consuming because when you're doing cover shots... Especially when it's pink. Yeah. ...and you've gotta do a different angle, a different point of view, it becomes very time consuming. Very time consuming. I mean, I have photographs from the film of me just on the floor out of it, you know, just from hanging about.

Nobody ever knew what "hoopla" was in the States. Hoopla. - Hoopla, Janet! Nobody knew what that meant. - I know.

What does it mean? It's like a circus term. "Hoopla!" Like with the whip. I know what you're saying, but what does it mean? What does it mean? Hoopla. It means, "attention," "applause," "applaud." No, if you're like saying to the horse or something, you go, "Hoopla!" Regarde, what's... - Regarde? I don't know. Something of that nature. - When we did Shock Treatment, nobody understood "over the moon." It's like a cymbal crash in variety, isn't it, basically? Yes, no, it Sort of like the slapstick that they used to use. It was an accent of... Hoopla! - Yeah. Something of that nature. - Yeah.

Oh! This was wonderful too. I did watch this movie again last night. I certainly have seen it a few times. But I really appreciated it. I remember this. This was torture. Because it was the first time Tim undid the thingamajiggies. And Jim Sharman was screaming, "Faster! Faster! Go, do it more! Do it more!" Yeah. - And we didn't have a second chance at it. Did we? It had to work, I think. - That's right. That's right. It did. Because we were gonna put the colors into the water. Yeah. - And-- Although this was artificially induced, as you can see. - Yeah. But those colors were gonna stain the water. There was like one take on this. They were supposed to be the colors of the rainbow. Weren't they? They were supposed to be, you know, violet and indigo and red and green and whatever. You know, those five colors. I think that's what it was supposed to be.

It's interesting that we get a bandaged body, a skeleton. Yeah. Ah. Another bandaged body. Hmm. - That's okay. Maybe it works.

Oh. - Whoo! Now this little-- That was a great little-little dance there. I-I-I came up with that little dance step. Did you? - In seconds. And I don't know how I did it. And I've never been able to do it since. I could've killed you, because I could hardly do it. And Toguri kept telling me... I kept falling over. It was that wiggling on one foot, and I had high heels. We did it very easily and very quickly. I know. Did you make it up? In seconds. It's not from the "Time Warp"? - No. Or did we just follow you? Obviously. Well, Nell went... ... That looks good. That's good." And I don't Know where it came from, because you know I'm a terrible dancer. And we did it in seconds. And, uh, it was all over. But it looks rather good, that little leg movement. Yeah. Yes, I love this bit. "He's okay." Because when-when we did it in rehearsal, I gave Nellie a note for this. She'd hate the word "note." You know, and she goes, "He's okay." And changed it completely from however she'd done it before. And Tim Curry was so shocked, that he really did react to it like he was furious with her. Because she completely changed the tone of it. Mm-hmm. And I loved it because it was, like, it wasn't what he was expecting, so his fury was real.

I mean, all these ideas were wonderful, these props and presents. It was glorious. I find it wonderful just to watch it all happening.

'Cause to me, I thought we were in a nice, you know, straight, clean show. I didn't know there was lots of hanky-panky going on. Oh, yeah.

2 He'll do press-ups and chin-ups > When he pushes this, um, horse... This thing that he's on... - Yeah. I was brilliant at jumping that, by the way, at school. I got prizes for that. - Really? Mm-hmm. Gymnastics. What, a plastic covered one like that? - No. Brown. Go on. When he pushes it away, you'll see. Notice, it takes a little journey of its own there. Oh, yes! -There was some wires.

Now, this is what I never understood. Why nobody pushed that button. Nobody opened it.

Marvelous party. - Marvelous party! Marvelous party. I suppose he... - I went to a wonderful party... But nobody asked me to play. ...with Nunu and Nano and Maude. With who? I think it's Nunu and Nano and Maude. But I couldn't be sure about that.

Now, you'll notice after the killing of Eddie here, when Frank or Tim says, "He had no muscle"... Yeah. - ...we had to shoot that again. That was just after we'd finished. We'd wrapped. And we hadn't got the shot. It didn't work. So we had to go back, and we got some pink tiles. And they shot him against just these pink tiles. Goodness. - You'll see in a minute. You see? Nothing but work.

Well, this was while we were shooting. Yeah. Yeah, it's sweet.

Weird Fantasy, I think, is the title of that particular magazine. Ah. Of course, all his stuff was shot in a day. Because the marvelous thing about the dining room scene, that I read about in a magazine... I didn't realize why, which we will see when we come to it. I'll talk about the set of the dining room scene. Okay, I'll bear that in mind. - All right, thank you. I'll just write that down. - Write that down. No, I'll remember. Is that what I think it is, is you just rolled up over there, skinned up over there? Sorry? I never really liked the way you took so much pleasure in looking at that. What? - Your voyeuristic sense. Oh. You see that... Making those noises and things, I got rather embarrassed. Oh, really? - Yes. Do you see that thing around the television screen? I still have that. - Where? It's in my shed. I've got it in my shed. In your shed? It's in my wee shed. And what do you do with it? Well, it's at the back of the house. The kids have actually shown interest in it. - I see! Linus wants it. My son would like it. You know, and actually Joshua... - What, with all the thingies? With all the pulls and handles? Just-just the square that goes around the television screen and the handle on it, yeah. - All right. It's lost a couple of its rivets... Hmm. - ...aS one does over the years.

Of course, this was the most brilliant idea ever. Wasn't it? Well, absolutely. Because we needed no, kind of, real close-ups of flesh or anything. I know but where did it come from? It came from the stage. They didn't have to take their clothes off. It came from the stage, but why was it-- who invented this idea? Because it's theatrical in its innocence, and I think it's probably to do with Jim Sharman's prudery as well... Good show. - But it works. Jim and me, the old prudes. It works for us, because nobody is coerced into doing anything which is overt. No. - You know. It's just, all the salaciousness disappears. Yeah, it's brilliant. - And so you get this... And it just seems like happy fun time. Don't you think? It's divorced somehow rather, isn't it? - Yes. And no clothes come off. We know it's very rude. - This. I thought, "They'll give me a bloody mop." Yes, but this is interesting because we saw that little look between the two of us in "Sweet Transvestite." Now again, you see, subtext... - Well, I tell you... Darling, Lillian Gish has got nothing on me in silent movies. This is the most silent movie I ever made. I'm glad I'm talking now. And I had to do something. - Uh-huh. You know, so I mean... I've never made so many eyes or faces. There are a lot of directors that would be so locked in to the main narrative, to the linear narrative... - There wasn't any. ...that they'd get lost on the subtext. These are the things... We might shoot them, but they would end up on the cutting room floor. And these little moments... Because there isn't a line spoken here. This is a whole scene in silence. - Exactly. I'm in a silent movie. We're secondary players. No, no. - But... No, we're not here, because the director has allowed us to give us some breathing space. But we would be, in many films we'd be secondary players, and they'd excise us from the whole thing. We wouldn't be seen. Well, then they would have had no film. All they would have had was the linear narrative text, just-just the top line. That would have been a bit thin. - Yes, as it is with many films. Now look at this. This is our moment. Well, it's a moment. Another moment. I wouldn't say it's "our moment." Well, I never knew this was going on. I mean, you know that I never thought it had anything to do with incest. And then I suddenly thought, "What's going on here?" This odd little Dracula kiss. You know, so as I say, I never had in my mind incest with my brother. Because we made the sign together and then the fans decided that that was an incestuous thing. Yeah. What do they call it? An elbow fuck? Sorry. Yes. I'm rather shocked. - Sorry. That's what they call it. An elbow-- What's another word for fuck? Well, is there-- Do we need one? Well, you know. So that people... It might have to be cut. Well, don't... - What do you do when... What do you do when you-- Copulate! - Elbow sex. Copulate. An elbow copulation. And that's what they all think we're doing. And I thought, "No, we're making our Transylvanian sign, you idiots." Yeah, but... But it's when you bit my neck, then they really thought, "He's up to no good." It's the chemistry between us, love. Well, I had none at all. I was just doing my job. And you were my brother doing your work. Doing his sister. Not in my game, no. I think that was always present in my mind. Well, it might have been in yours, but it wasn't in mine. I think it builds. I think it works because the innocence of you seems like indifference, cool indifference to the whole idea. You go, "Oh, yes. Go on then, Riff Raff. If you want to." Oh, dear. - "You all right now? You happy now? Good. Off you go. Toddle off." I wish I'd known.

Now this song here was supposed to be cut-- intercut... not song, this action, this dialogue was supposed to be intercut with Brad's song. Oh, yes. "Once in a While." - Which is wonderful. Okay, so that cut from there to there... That cut from there to there... - Yeah. They work. I think they work cinematically very well, but Brad's song was supposed to go between those cuts. We were supposed to cut in between the song and that. And we cut the song out of the piece. Why, I'm not quite sure. I love Brad on the bed having a cigarette. I think it's brilliant. Oh/ One of the things about the show afterwards was that it needed cuts, but I think that was possibly because of the fact they didn't understand... Fox, you know, green-lighted this movie. They gave us the green light, the go-ahead. And then they changed the head of Fox, and Alan Ladd Jr. came in to be the head of Fox. And he didn't want to do this movie. However, it was just too late. That's when he was with Gareth Wigan, Georgia Brown's husband. It was just too late for them to say no. - Sorry. Oh, good lord. And they turned up on the set. Alan Ladd Jr. turned up and came down when we were working out of Bray Studios. He didn't want this to happen but, you know, it was too late. And by the time we'd finished the movie, of course, he was no longer the head of Fox anyway. So it didn't make any difference because it was another person there then. God, what a game of chance. And then this was released and they didn't know who to release it to, what the target audience was, who was gonna go and see this movie. 7e/ us about it, Janet.

I love Nellie painting my toes. I never thought who thought that up. Maybe Jim Sharman directed that. I've forgotten. You and Nellie, probably. And Nellie and I... Because we Sat in a very cold caravan and sort of talked about what we were going to do in this room of ours. And this idea, I think this is very sexy and very naughty. I think it's lovely. It's very intimate, two kids playing together, isn't it? Do you think that's what it's like? - Yeah. Yeah. Her pj's are always so sweet. Her pajamas. She's blowing. Look, she's blowing my toes dry. It's not sexual. It's like, two little chums. Yes. You're the same person almost. In fact, you were the same person because you weren't supposed to be two different people when I first wrote this show. - Oh. You were the same person. - I see. And then Jim Sharman said, "I've got..." What was the name-- "Marianne Faithfull." I know. "And she's really interested in being in this show, and could we write a part for her?" And I said, "I don't think so because I'm not that clever. Writing another part into the show. What I might do is split the girl's part into two pieces." And so Magenta and Columbia were split into two different people. I don't understand. Who was Marianne going to play? Why couldn't she play... - She was gonna play Magenta. I don't know why. Don't ask me why. Because I think we'd already said yes to Little Nell. I see. - And then Marianne... I said, "So, I've done it. I've kind of worked it out that the two parts are split up into... the one part's split into two parts." And he wert... ..."Oh, yeah. Well, Marianne's gone to India." I know. Was I ever so pleased. And... - She went on her trip. And then it was you. > Ithad to be you > ? Wonderful you >

So I think the two of you playing together like that, it is something symbiotic. It's like two little twins there. Why is it that your veins stick out? Remember, people, when you're making love, and you're hanging over the top of your loved one, that the veins in your forehead stick out. Look at that. Look, excuse me. I didn't look like that. We don't want that to happen. Just... Look, Peter's are there as well. Just bear that in mind. I see, that's what we all look like when we're doing it. Yeah. Whenever you're on top. - Oh, God. That's why we have our eyes closed. Or the lights out, yeah. - Candlelight. It's very flattering, isn't it? Now, he actually whipped me here. Yeah, he did. Ow! - He caught me. Ow! He caught me. - That hurt. He caught me several times, but I didn't complain because I was a method actor. Yeah. Ow! - Whoo!

Ooh. A look of concern from young Barry there. It's almost cross-eyed. Dear Barry. I met him at a convention in America, and he said to me, "Pat, you really thought I was Brad, didn't you?" And I said yes. Well, I did. - Did you? He was at the time. He's actually great fun now. He plays the mayor in something. Do you know? He's gray-haired and he's marvelous. - Spin City. Something like that. It's brilliant. But he was so serious, and he was so in love with Susan at the time. They were having a bad time, I think. I think Barry's got a good sense of humor. He's the one person that... out of all of the, um, kind of major players that weren't really connected with us in an organic sense. That's right. But still maintains a sense of humor about the piece. He turns up and laughs about being Brad. You know, Brad gets called an arsehole on a regular basis and he puts up with that. Barry is wonderful and he's supported the show fantastically, and every convention I've met him at, I've adored him, but when he was actually doing this... Maybe he was a method actor and became Brad. You know. I just thought he was wonderful. I thought they were both such great players to come in and join an already kind of happy unit that we were. That must be very intimidating. I loved this. This was such a surprise to me. Yeah, on the wires, and we see the carpet flip up in a moment, where it comes round... somewhere. That was, to me, terribly funny. And I love us girls having... - That's great. And actually, mechanically, if you think about the mechanics of that, that's pretty damn good. It's damn good. And this is the reason. There was no way to get out of the lab. They had no entrance into the laboratory. - They had no door. And they suddenly realized, "What do we do? How do we get him in there?" - Come through the wall. I Know. They forgot to build a door. - They did. And that's one of the most brilliant things. It's wonderful. Dr. Von Scott. - Yeah. I wish he hadn't used the German accent, though. I'd have preferred to have had an American accent. Right. Did you mind my German accent? No, you were fine but the Von Scott thing was... what I wanted was that to be a surprise. There's no surprise when he says, "Or should I say Dr. Von Scott." Von Scott. No. - He's already got a German accent. Couldn't the director have told him? I had problems in certain areas. Yeah. - Communication problems. Right. - That's true. But he's highly intelligent, Jonathan Adams. Yeah. He lives in a house that looks over a cemetery. Called Tomb View. Yes. - Tomb View. Very nice. He's, um, he's a fine artist of fine art. If that makes sense. Collages. - Is that a tautology? I'm not quite sure. Tautology. Good word. Janet. Dr. Scott. Janet! - Brad! Rocky! Now I don't know whose idea this was, to repeat this section again. That was brilliant. - But it works. And I've got to tell you something amazing but I'm going to forget his name which is going to be dreadful. Alan Sharp. Got it out. He's a scriptwriter in Hollywood. Comes from Scotland. He's a massive scriptwriter. There goes that gong. And, when we get to it, when the statues are made, you know, Little Nell, he bought Little Nell and she was in his back garden in LA. No. - Yes. Alan Sharp bought Little Nell's body. Her statue. With the plinth. I never understood the plinths. I didn't understand the plinths. I don't understand why we didn't make them disappear. Have a light come down... - I wish I'd become a body. However informal it might appear, you can be sure there was to be very little bonhomie. Those doors are the most beautiful glass. Wonderful LED-lighted doors, and I wanna know where they are. Because the first time I ever set eyes on them, I wanted those... Can I just say why the table is laid like this quickly? Go on then. - It's because we came from Transylvania. And we didn't know how to give a dinner party. This was Brian Thomson's idea. And that's why we've got all these peculiar spoons, and, you know, pee-pee bottles from the hospital, and jam jars and whatever, because we didn't know how to entertain. That's right. - I rather loved that idea. I never knew it at the time. And they said, "Would you serve the stuff?" And I went, "Well, I don't know how to do it either." So I'll throw it and I'll dribble it, and I don't give a monkeys what I do here. And nobody had had a conversation about that, but it was quite anarchic, wasn't it? Yes. - If you think about it. Yes.

That's our elbow copulating. Or so the fans think. - Elbow connection. I just act like it. - Elbow creak. As opposed to Jacob's.

Could you fill me in on Jacob's Creek? It's a wine from Australia. Is it? Really? - It's a little bit like Barossa Pearl. That's bloody nice, that Barossa Pearl. Queen Adelaide, that's pretty good too. There's old Charlie. Darling Charlie. Charlie. He's fabulous, Charlie. I met a friend of his, a colleague of his... I wouldn't have thought he had one. Oh, yes, he did. Apart from Ava. Ava. - Whom I adored. I became a movie star because of Ava Gardner. I didn't mean a movie star. I mean an actress. "Actor," I think, if you're really gonna be PC. - No, no, no. No, no, no. I am very ashamed of any actress who calls herself an actor. - Why? Dorothy Parker said, "Scratch an actor and you'll find an actress underneath." Well, it's certainly worked in my case, but how about you? I am very proud to be an actress. I would never wish to be an actor. I'm not. But pride comes before the fall, Pat. - They're awfully boring. No, no, no. Actors are such different creatures to actresses. Are they? - Yes, totally.

And I have to say, I've met lawyers, I've met everyone, I've been on trains, I've been everywhere, And they've all done it. Exactly. - They've all fishnet. But will they get us off next time we're up before the big? I doubt it very much. - "I have to say, Your Honor, on the night in question, I was wearing fishnets." And I had an orange stuck in my mouth. - Yes. No, but seriously, I can't tell you the people I've met... They do, they talk to me, and if it's ever mentioned, they all say they've done it. It's strange. What did you do, Richard? > What's this f ? Let's see I released people from their kind of... male-female polarized parameters. Whoo! The English male is evolved from that. - It became very frightening for the Brad character there that's lost in no-man's-land, because-- as a result of the changes. So she's got-- You see here, Janet, you see this is where the worm has turned and everything has changed around. She gets her... She gets her kind of strength and her power. And he gets lost. The hunter-gatherer male gets lost. Because she's now got her power. I see. So that's what's happened today, actually. Truthfully, yeah, it does mirror today's society. And I think that's one of the reasons why the show has some longevity. God. Hmm.

Yeah, and they disappear. And they fade in his dreams. Bravo! Bravo!

How sentimental.

And the deck chairs, I think, are a great idea. Nice thought. - Yeah. End of the pier. - Yeah.

And of course we have this ray gun, which, again, equals the American Gothic pitchfork at the beginning. - Yes, which you threw. At the side. You threw it down, didn't you? Pitched away. Again, it's... - Pitched away. But I didn't get that. I'm terribly sorry, and I've been around forever. I have that pitchfork. It doesn't have that thing off the top of it, that little peak and that... - No. But I have the handle and the rest of it. So the amazing tie-up for Mr. Thomson is extraordinary, isn't it? I mean, in the work and the ideas. Yeah. It's almost a noose. I beg your pardon? It's almost what? Well, you said, "Tie-up." I was just... - Tie-up. A noose! Oh, a noose! Yes, I love it. A naughty conundrum. - I thought you were being Greek. Yes, quite Greek. The twitch and the eyes, they had that...

Kind of... - Nellie Yeah. Felt pretty nasty, kid. No! This is a very primitive overlay of special effects here. That, for instance. - Mm-hmm. Today, we could do that with computers so easily. Went through the air. And they made poor, old Tim climb those ropes. He shouldn't have done that of course. - No. While he was doing it... - Insurance, right? .../ remember people on the set, experienced men, saying, "No, this shouldn't be happening. Oh, no, he shouldn't be doing it. No, no." Kill the actor. - "Not your principal actor, he shouldn't be doing it. No, no." I bet he had a great time doing it, though. He was so into it by then.

So they're the real performers there.

But our underwear looks nice.

We are about to beam the entire house back to the planet of... What have you got... What's that extra little band around the top of your legs? I can't make that out. - I know. I'm trying to work it out too. It's more interesting than yours. I can see the top of your stocking there. And then that around your waist. But what's the one in the middle there? What's that? What's that all about? - I think that's-- I don't know. How can I remember who dressed me? But you dressed yourself, obviously. What do you mean, no bloody dresses? - You can't remember yourself?

"Oh, my darling sister, what is that extra bit between your knickers and the top of your stockings?" "I have no idea. Oh, I don't know. But it's all for you, my darling in the stars. Something up there anyway, in the Milky Way." Stop it! - "Oh, look, I can see them. I can feel the stars shining on us."

"And what about us?" Excuse me. We're talking about camp acting here. Great stuff. There's nothing camp about me. It's brilliant. It's brilliant. - We should've got Oscars for that, mate.

This was nice, the cutbacks to the servants. I loved that. Yes. But I saw several endings. Have you seen several endings to this movie? I have. - No. And it doesn't necessarily go back to that. Now, this is interesting. We couldn't afford, of course, a special effects shot. So when this goes out, you will see the same house behind. See the house behind, through there? - No.

And this was cut from a lot of the original versions. This song was cult. 2 Toftind the truth ? And we cut straight to the narrator's verse. He says to tell the truth and never lied. We cut Brad and Janet's verses in this song and went straight to the narrator's verse on the original movie. And it made no sense whatsoever. - I see. 'Cause we needed this. There was a very long intro that Richard Hartley had devised for this song. And I suggested they cut straight to Brad's verse. And they cut straight to the narrator's verse, which was cutting both Brad and Janet's verse, which was rather stupid because it's kind of nice to have these two verses. Make the whole thing tie up, the whole song tie up.

And we went around and around. So had you much control over this? No, not really. But I had my five pennies' worth. - Okay. And I was allowed to have a voice, but it was no more important than anybody else's. This is interesting. This ran into an overhead shot. And the spin shot, which was the same overhead shot, probably exactly the same place that we did the overhead shot of Tim in the pool. And that spin that turns into the globe, which was Mr. Sharman again.

And crawling... I wrote this song in 1970 or'71. I was in Nottingham. I was doing Harr. And we were on tour with the show, and I wrote this song and I had no idea. I remember I went to see Arturo U/. Oh. I was meant to be in that, with Simon Callow. Well... - On we go. Leonard Rossiter. - Rossiter. Leonard Rossiter. - Yeah. And I went to see Leonard Rossiter on a wet Wednesday afternoon at the Saville Theatre. And it was about 100 people in a theater designed to take 2,000 people. - Yes. And he played it as if it was first night, opening night. How divine. - And showed us the way that it works. And the way: "You are here today. I will perform for you." And he did that last segment of that show, that closing speech so beautifully and so brilliantly that I wrote that song off that speech. "You've gotta watch out for fascism, because the bitch is living still." And that entire song was written off that premise, written off that speech.