Say Anything (1989)

I'm Ione Skye. I am also Ione Skye. I'm John Cusack. I am Ione Skye. I'm Cameron Crowe. I'm Cameron Crowe. I'm Spartacus. And I am Spartacus. And we're here to discuss anything. Cameron, when did you know you wanted to make a gladiator film? From a very, very young age when I saw shiny metal objects and sharp instruments. Oh, my God. Lily. Lily Taylor. Amazing. Coolest girl. I always wanted to have a scene at the beginning of the movie that just set the whole movie off, you know? One minute in, you know exactly where you're headed and you're on a freight train. That's what this scene is. I also love how the whole room is decorated with Joe. Yeah. The obsession of Corey. You knew Lily a little bit from Chicago. Lily, yeah. Lily used to go out with a friend of mine, DV. And we, you know, we went to the group together. I was, like, intimidated by her because she was so cool. I remember that day I kind of got jealous because you guys were such good friends. Yeah. She's so cool. This is Amy Brooks. This is the Lloyd had to have girlfriends. And they were all a little bit in love with him, too. And he was a little bit in love with them. That's great. The very beautiful Ione with Mortarboard. And John Mahoney, who we've just got to talk about. Such an amazing actor for a first-time guy to be able to work with. Now, that was a reshoot. It was indeed. Right? I came back from there. I remember that was one thing. You asked for that one piece when we came out. I came back from Durango, Mexico to do that one. We did that and one other thing. I can't remember what it was. I think the phone booth. Did we do the phone booth again? Mm-hmm. Coming up here somewhere is Stone Gossard from Pearl Jam, then Mother Love Bone. I love that music joke. Everyone always used to think that the film was broken at the beginning of a screening. but it's really just Lloyd fixing the stereo. Anyway, Stone Gossard from Mother Love Bone, later Pearl Jam, played a cab driver who kind of checks you out on the way to this graduation. Very proud of that little cameo. That's very cool. Pearl Jam fans. I would think John Mahoney's, this role was like the hardest because he's so good for the father. He knows someone with his motivations in life. It's pretty tricky. Did you think he was a bad guy? When you read the script? Or did you... What was your... Um... No, it's just... I mean, it's heartbreaking to find out what he's like, but... And then everything looking back becomes so dark all of a sudden, because you think of how involved he got with my relationship. It just... Then it becomes just sick. Mm-hmm. And gross. There's always that great undercurrent in the film. And everybody you... Everybody that was... Making the film, I think, was a real attract to that complexity. I'm just looking at Laszlo Kovacs. Laszlo Kovacs did an amazing job. I'll never forget the day he got into it. John Mooney. I had a lot of... Polly Platt. Polly Platt. A lot of talent helping me out on my first time here. She did art direction on Paper Moon. Last Picture Show. Last Picture Show. She worked with Laszlo. She got me Laszlo. And he and the Aggie, the... Augie. Augie. They were so... I used to just watch them set up. Look at Lily. She looks so good. Yeah. This principal came back and he played a principal in Almost Famous. Oh, cool. I really branched out in the way I used him. He's a principal again. He's like, I can do that. See, the film worked on so many different levels, I always thought. Because here's this big speech, and I think it's going to be one thing. And she basically just goes, future's terrifying. I don't know what I worked so hard for. Was it terrifying? I remember, yeah. Doing this speech. Actually finally doing the speech. I had a really bad cold, which distracted me, but not really because, what's the actor's name who just sang the greatest? Lauren Dean. Lauren Dean. I just remember thinking that would be harder to have to, like at that point in my life, I was still an insecure teenager. So I was thinking, well, at least I don't have to do that. I just remember during this. But I got into this. I remember Laszlo was mad at me that day. Really? Uh-huh. Yeah, because I told you, I said, look, when you came to Chicago, I said, I'll do the part. We've got to put this stuff in. We've got to make him a little more aware. We've got to give him his bottom, notice his head. But I'm not wearing that fucking hat. Right. And we came to the day, and I didn't want to wear the hat. Yeah. And I think Laszlo thought I was usurping your authority on some level. I think Laszlo... ultimately came to realize that the hat represented the potential of teen movie glibness just to us. And in the end, it's fine that he doesn't wear the hat because... It's cool. I couldn't wear it. I mean, I literally couldn't. Yeah. Now I remember. I remember. I wanted to make sure that the things that had meaning to him were real and the things... There's Polly Platt. That's Polly Platt, by the way. That had traditional meaning or symbolic meaning. It had no meaning to Lloyd. Polly Platt in the middle, she became kind of like a mother. She became like a real mother figure. And I remember both, because you said you had come from just spraining your ankle, and so you were on a crash, you know, like, workout. Yeah. And I always, you know, you were like, you're like me. You're kind of chubby. And like Polly would say, don't eat any donuts. She would drive me crazy. I also remember two things that I figured out. Can I just say, that is an example of the chemistry with you and Lily Taylor. You guys are speaking in fragments of words. Not looking at each other. And understanding everything completely. She's so cool. Yeah. I mean, like I said, I was intimidated by her. My sister, Jill! Yay! And I was intimidated by your sister, too, because she just is so amazing. I remember two things that I knew when we were talking before about creating character. And two things that really helped me out with Lloyd were, I remember I put this scar right on his eyebrow. Yeah. And so what I do is, because if you see on my left eyebrow, there's a little scar. I guess you can see it in close-ups on the big screen. I don't know if anyone saw it, but whenever I put that scar on in the morning, and those pants, those 40s pants, I immediately, I just knew. And the coat, which was your addition, and that is the iconography of the Lord. So you can see the scar. There it is, wow. And I remembered, the story I had was, I just remembered how brutal kids can be to each other. I just remember that my story was that someone had just thrown a rock at his head when he was a kid. Wow. Can you ever see kids and you go, how does anybody survive anything? It's so true. Because kids are just so brutal to each other and they're just getting fights and all that stuff. This scene takes me back to a very specific place. I was having a hard time directing. This takes you back to a lot of times with your sister, right? Yeah, this is definitely... To me, this scene really gets me, too. This is Jim saying, write your sister. Write the way you feel about your sister. And ultimately I wrote her again in Almost Famous, and we're now very close again. But I had a hard time. This was early on in the film, and I still was kind of getting used to the fact that Lloyd had anger in him. which was very important to the finished movie. But in the script, I saw him a little more as a blatant optimist. And I remember talking to Johnny on this day and saying, can you smile more? And it was the beginning of a conversation that became very important to me, where you basically said, I can do that. But I also can play that in a different way. Let me just try some stuff. I'll do what you want, and I'll do what we're talking about. We'll do it all, you know. But what I did was basically step back and watch you and your sister smoke. And you directed the kid, too, sort of, with the way you dealt with them. And I watched you really kind of, on a very important day, start to build that character in a way that really became powerful to me. So thanks for that. And here we have this amazing scene where John Mahoney is just showing you how much he loves Ioni. God, it's so overwhelming. I remember this. He's giving me a ring. He's giving me a ring. It's so heavy. It's too much. It's too much for a father to do, really, in a way. Because it's just the two of us. Forget it. No, wait a minute. But we didn't want to do, I remember, we didn't want to do parents as stereotypes. No, I mean, it's good that it was too much. And you guys played it as friends as well as loving father. But there's a certain kind of desperation that Mahoney plays so great. I know. It's true. You did nail this, boy. Remind me to come back to that scene with me and Johnny. Yeah. I remember just thinking about that scene with you and your sister. It's like, damn, they are telepathic. Because I would talk to both of you and you guys would listen, but you didn't have to talk to each other. You just sort of knew where to be on the field and where to be to get the pass. And it was just... I just remember during that scene that... Oh, there's the Clash T-shirt. I just remember that, you know, what you wanted was... You said you wanted this optimism as a revolutionary act. It's a conscious choice. So I thought, the way to make that really powerful is to make him fully aware of all of the shadows. And very conscious of it. So the more conscious you make the character... the more the choice becomes heroic. Right. Because if you're a guy who just sort of sees the world as a wonderfully terrific place, there's not much courage there. And coming from, as I said, me and Reagan are a kid, I really wanted to... So that anger was probably important to me. And as we went through the film, I remember we always said, all right, we've got to have both bottom notes and high notes. And, of course, that guy lived right in the middle. And I probably... did things that were way too dark, but then it enabled me to come around. Well, there's a difference between a guy saying, why can't you just decide to be in a good mood and be in a good mood, as a sunny guy, or a guy who is literally yearning for something. And he tells his sister, like, life is short. In an unvarnished way. Life is short. Make a choice. Make a choice. And she says, I'm not Tim. I'm not this guy who left you. By the way, this is my favorite phone scene ever. It's so great. I love how much you move around. Johnny absolutely on fire using a very small bathroom. Brilliant. I've since written scenes and tried to do scenes in a very small space, and guys have said, how are you going to get that much going on in a small room? And I always think, Johnny in Say Anything gets a lot of stuff going on in a very small space. And the way he says goodbye here is so great. Or, good afternoon, sir. Oh, yeah. It's true. The timing is so good. Pretty great, isn't she? What? She's really pretty great. Ah! Yeah, she is. Good afternoon. Yeah. Goodbye. Good afternoon. OK, bye. And he loves that daughter. It's all about Diane. And you see the joy that John Mahoney gives you here. See, he's succeeded. He's delivered her from the corruption that he had to engage in. He made it. Well, this, of course, is when I think you, if you hadn't before, I remember you went on the toe shot and you came back just laughing. I think when you became the John Mahoney, the true diehard John Mahoney lover, is when you just started crooning, Ricky, don't lose that number. I think I keep doing that scene in the car out of nostalgia for John Mahoney singing, Ricky, don't lose that number. Yeah, you can trust a man who writes a letter every day. He looks like William Holden, doesn't he? I know. His suit is really amazing. So great. I've got to tell you this carefully. Lee, Ben, could you do me a favor? Just a couple of minutes. Service report eight. Oh, man, I love this scene. Ione, you have such a great quality here. When you slide down the wall. It's one of my favorite things in the movie. I just had a phone call. Tell me, is it bad news? No, just listen. Are you kidding? Well, I think my favorite moment between the two of them is when she finds out about him. Oh, yeah. And he says, you know, I think whatever came out of Ione that day was... That was hard to come out of. Deep from the shadows, because you said he's a liar. And he tries to hug her and then pushes away. It's really, really brilliant. I don't know if you remember, because do you remember that we were filming in a home for people with Down syndrome? And they asked us to come for an assembly. One of the most surreal things that ever happened to me in my life. So you and John Mahoney and I said, sure. They said, will you come and say something? They're all gathered in this assembly. And you came up and you said something really funny. And John Mahoney came up and said, you know, your grounds are very beautiful, something very eloquent. And then I got up to the mic, and it's like 250 people with Down syndrome sitting down. And I just said, I really don't know what to say. And one person stood up and went, boo! And then, like... To me, it seemed like all of them stood up and booed me. Oh, man. And I just, like, time stopped, and I started laughing and, like, crying at the same time. And we all just sort of, like, walked down and then shut the door to the auditorium, and it was just, like, quiet. Isn't that surreal? That's surreal. And we never mentioned it. Don't go in there! That was one of the most surreal things that ever happened to me. Nice move on Joanie there, too, also. Oh, man. Racing me to the bathroom door to make me do it in public. So great. Love this little boy, too. You guys had your own language. That phone is really sweet with him. Yeah. The way he nods, watches you. What do we love? What do we love? Pain. Pain. Also, I remember we did that thing with Hey Soul Classics. Oh, yeah. That's right. That was on television, right? That was on television. That was a commercial at the time. You had him do it. That's telling the movie, isn't it? Oh, yeah. Hey, my brother. Yeah. Hey, Soul Classics. Once again, here's a man demonstrating no need for a cell phone. I know, this is great. He has complete mobility. I love your physical, the way you move the phone around. Oh, thanks, but I'm busy. It's so cool, our different worlds. The sets are really amazing. Yeah. They really are. Polly definitely kept an eye on that stuff. Jim Brooks, too. He would look at dailies and sometimes have comments like, you know, the house is too clean. Why don't you have her put something on the floor and pick it up like real people do? Just great little notes like that. Look, Dan, I'm sorry, but I can't allow you to leave the country without attending the leader's graduation event. This gentleman is 22. I love the way... This gentleman is 22. Now, that's collaboration. That's Johnny bringing that. This gentleman is 22. No, that was in the script, wasn't it? No, it's... You know, and you're not in England yet. You know that, of course. But by the way, I wanted to just tell you that I lived... Gentleman is you. ...in England. And Jeremy and I can give you an enormous amount of tips. English tips. English tips. Well. No tip. I'll go. Pardon me? I'll go. You will? Excellent. All right. This is great. You will? Really? I'll go. All right. This is really nice. All right. We're going out. It's a date. It's a scam. Whatever. Whatever. All right. I'll pick you up at what? Eight o'clock? It's a scam. Yeah. Eight o'clock. That's optimism as a revolutionary act.

Now she's telling me who the other guy is. Uh-oh. Now, work that back. Work that work. Work that back, J-Man. Left hook. Hook off the jab. Straight left hand. What do we love? Pain! Love this guy. He's probably like 39. No. Here is a mini tribute to Lowell Marchant, the guy I was talking about earlier. Get right there! Hi. Lloyd Dalbo, sir. Pleasure to meet you. Hello, Lloyd. Hello. Heard about that graduation present. Really quite a car. Look, I know you're busy. You don't have to entertain me. But you can trust me. I'll tell you a couple things about myself. I'm 19. I've been overseas for a couple semesters. Now I'm back. I remember watching this scene happen and think, that's the guy. That's the guy. And that awkward moment that happens when he's run out of things to say is everything. Fine, Lloyd. Come in. How you doing? You well? It's so great. And the dress. Right. Yeah, she's a sinner. Hi. I love that I'm overdressed with it. Yeah, yeah. Like, I kind of do everything wrong also. Well, you have that, uh... Would you hold this for me? Yeah. That gifted child syndrome, you know? Yeah. I think the character diversity is just minorly, socially... either behind or shy or inept because she's separated from... Bavarian Dutch style pretzels. They're packed. They're both outsiders. Yeah. Would it be terrible if I wanted to go home already? And it's great, there's like a form, there's like a 50s, 1950s, there's like a formality with having a party to go to and being outsiders, just doing this thing that...

Anthony and the Chili Peppers recorded that five-second song, Sex Bomb, that comes blasting in. Is that the remake of Tom Jones' Sex Bomb? That's the remake of Tom Jones' Sex Bomb. That should have been a hit. Here's a party packed with interesting characters. Shout out to Chris Ziesmer, who we're going to see there on the left of the screen. His father, great guy, Chris. His father is the world's greatest assistant director, who Laszlo... who was the first lady for Apocalypse Now. Bella. That's right. She drove me to work every day. And we have Eric Stoltz. Who was also the celebrity PA. He was the celebrity PA. And I kept saying in the morning, I said, what are you doing as a PA? So he would say, can I get you a coffee, Mr. Cusack? I would say, shut up. What are you doing? But I guess, what was he doing? He wanted to have experience in all aspects of filmmaking. But what was he really doing? Blowing our minds by just being a PA and bringing you coffee and hanging out. No one knew what he was doing. I know. And there's Gerald. Gerald Jeremy Fresh Piven. Kim Walker. Heathers. From Heathers. Jeremy was... That's great. Jeremy's one of the great, great, great, explosive, soon-to-be-leading men, I feel, talents in film. And he just came in and kicked ass. That's so good. And you brought them all in, and they just were amazing. Yeah, I remember he came in to the party and you were trying to... Barbra Streisand's son. Barbra Streisand's son, Jason Gould. He's great. As Mike Cameron. With the hair that he tried to have to simply red, but it was simply shit. That's right, that's right. That's right. I got the Keymaster thing from the real Corey, which is a girl named Corey Ford, who I met through Michael Gilmore. the writer, and Corey had a real intense relationship with a guy named Joe. She sent me a tape of her songs, and she said, here's 12 songs about Joe and one song that's post-Joe. So they're all sort of about Joe. And I just wanted to write that. I ended up writing the songs, well, sitting in on Nancy Wilson writing the songs, really. And so we wrote all these songs, including Joe Lies, which has about 30 more verses than we see in the movie. It was a blast. They were all in G, weren't they? They were all in G, and they're all about Joe. Joe Lies and Joe Crys. Should we also point out the trivia that Julia Roberts came up twice for the part that Amy Brooks plays of the third friend of Lloyd? Wow. I didn't remember that. And even then, you guys sort of You could tell there was the right movie for you guys. And now, however many years later, I have now seen you guys doing romantic comedy together, and it's fantastic. And America's Sweethearts. But she's not into anything. She's not. This is kind of cool, because it shows that you are cool with, like, adults. You're just... Yeah, this is great. This is... I love this. This is when you fall for him, like, so big. He wants me to join. He wants to pull some strings. I mean, there's no possible way. Let me just make an appointment for you at Seattle Junior College. You the key master? I'm not going to go to Seattle Junior College. I love you. I mean, I've got to be honest with you. I'm not looking for that. I'm looking for something bigger, you know? I'm looking for a dare to be great situation. Dare to be great situation. Everybody in that party puts something on their record, except you. Your thing about I know that I don't know was the addition that made the whole speech great, I thought. But I know that I don't know. Thank tough Lloyd. Well, you see, what he's saying is also what I loved about that. He says, how many of them, he goes, everybody put something on, what are they going to be? And he says, but how many of them really know? Yeah, they don't. Everyone's really insecure. Yeah, which is the same thing Diane was saying in her speech. I also liked that Bebe Neuwirth played a teacher who also was a little bit in love with Lloyd. I never picked that up, but of course. I see it every time. She's kind of hot. Yeah. She's kind of like, you know, she's kind of hot. She is the hot teacher. She's hot. She came to the party, but she can't stay. Not too late. It would be unbecoming. She came just to meet him. No, she came to the party. Now, this is like the greatest guy to go to a party with. He's watching you, but doesn't really want to get caught watching you. I remember those were the times where I said, Cameron, I want to do this, but I want it to be weird. Yeah, yeah. It's weird. But it's so great. He's just sort of Yeah, he's just hovering. This is Lisanne Falk and Allison Roth, David Lee Roth's little sister. Oh, wow. Nice pull. And I think my favorite extra in the world still is about to make an appearance saying, Lloyd Dobler, all right. Lloyd Dobler, all right. Cool. So nice. Thank you, sir. So good. Now this is just classic. Look at Johnny looking at you from across the way with the keys on his head. And Ione kicking ass. Look at him. And Gerald. Gerald dancing. Gerald. I keep calling him Gerald. It's good. That's his nickname for Jeremy. It's good. Look at him watching her. I know. Now, here's Chyna Phillips. whose original line was, buy baby, but we had to loop it. I'll be in the kitchen, baby? Yeah. Uh-oh. I'll be in the kitchen, Joe. He's great. How focused is he on Lily? He's fantastic. Lauren Dean came up for the part of Lloyd, and it was good, but something was a little... It didn't feel like it was coming from way down deep inside. And when he finished the audition, he just sat around talking with us and he was Joe. So we had him read Joe and it was like a slam dunk. He is Joe at this point in his life. I love this because he's trying to, he's trying to reason with him. Yeah. So what's up? She's a human being. Why do you think I keep her tapes? Gonna be valuable someday. No. He pays her the ultimate tribute. He's going to keep it because he might be able to sell it someday. Oh, my God. I thought he was so funny. That's my hand changing cassettes. Thank you. I didn't get it right. You never do. I mean, Joe was my first love. He was my first sex, and the whole time he was going out with Mimi. You'll never break up. She's so great. I know. Lily is just spectacular. She's all wrapped up in the hysteria of the emotion and the relationship. And Diane's just so happy that she's talking. She's going to look out for Lily. Lily's going to look out for her. And they talk about Lloyd. He checks up on me. Look. I got some more songs to you. Cheap trick in the background, right? Cheap trick. You want it, you got it. You want it, you got it. And this also follows the great rule of you can repeat something until it's just not funny anymore. And it's still funny. Lily on the guitar is just... Great. I could watch it all day long. Parties are just never like this ever again. There's Spoonie, Greg Spoonie. Greg Sporlater? Greg Sporlater. How's he? He's good. Eric Stoltz. Thank you, Eric. Nice. It was an ugly job to play the chicken. I hail you. He just likes doing things like that. PA the chicken. Joe has a little bit of a tear glistening. I think in the outtakes, we're going to be adding the incubus part of his speech. He makes her a little sculpture on mushrooms. You invade my soul. I want to get back together. I remember telling Laszlo, this should just have like a, that refrigerator should be like a Spielberg shot. And he's like, yeah, okay. He loves it. He made it happen.

They're so in love with the drama, it's so great. It's so amazing. That's like, they so believed in these characters. He hugs her, have sex with me. Yeah, it's true. It's such a unique feeling. That's why people love that. If you're lucky enough to have written it. Then he just goes for the beer after that. So great, yeah, I love this. Lloyd now needs a beer. Here's the keys, give me a beer. Why am I yelling? I don't know. But when you get Lily and Lauren Dean just becoming those characters, it's the wildest feeling because they lived in your head and on the page for a long time, and then all of a sudden, there they are, fully. Now, this is one of my favorite moments, when Lily... I hate it. He really knocked you on your ass. When Lily says goodbye, and then... You must chill! This is great. You must chill! I have hidden your keys! Chill! I love you, man. Yeah. Jeremy's one of your best friends for a really long time. Am I right? Yeah, I've known Jeremy since I was eight years old. Yeah, I remember him, and I think you and I flew out, him and Spoonie and Pat O'Neill from Chicago. Your boys became your boys in the movie. Well, you had met them when you came out to visit me, and we hung out, and you really dug them. I loved the way you guys were together. Were you all in the actors' gang? No, no, we weren't. I'd done something with them and the actors' gang, and then we started a company in Chicago and we all did stuff. The sack is officially empty. Uh-oh. The back bathroom. Let's go. That was a Jack Lord moment. That was very Jack Lord. And then here's Johnny. Look at this gentleman. Look at this gentleman. Look, you guys are all trying not to fully crack up. Diane's got a great thing. She's like looking at like as a sociologist. That's right. That's right. That's what one of those looks like. I always loved in the previous scene the way Lily said, I'm just a good person, but you're a great person. And somebody said that to me once, and I never forgot it. And of course, just the fact that they would say something like that makes them a great person. Right. So she really just, she kills me. She's so warm. I love this, the late night kind of driving music. The rock version of jazz, what jazz is supposed to do, just take you away, drift around, you and your thoughts, cruising about at 1 o'clock in the morning, 2 o'clock in the morning, probably 3 or 4. Man, it's well said. That was the feeling. Yeah. in the morning, how the morning looks after a night like that. However, it's time to leave my camera behind. Oh man, I'm really, really proud of what you guys do in this scene and as these characters. It's just all the little details of real life. They're really... It always gets me every time I see the movie. They knew me, but they didn't know me. Or he says they knew you, but they didn't know you. I wish I could have known you more. Mine says stuff like, Lloyd, see you around, maybe. See you around, maybe. Nobody knew me before tonight. They knew of you, now they know you. Yeah, they knew of you, now they know you. Yeah, but I feel like I fit in for the first time, you know? Like, I just held them far away from me, so they did the same to me. Nice car he drives, I gotta say, with the... What was that stuff? The thing on the... The bumpers on the... Yeah. What are those called? I don't know. Jack Lord always had them in Hawaii Five-0, so why not Lloyd? We can walk from here. Okay. We did this scene right across the street from where Lloyd holds up the boom box, so right to the right of the frame is where we... jumped over and did that scene. God, I actually had to... I went to court and I had to choose... Which is a scene that everyone remembers. Yeah. But this one, too, when he points out the glass. That's true. Watch out for that glass. And the cool thing, and I learned this from Jim Brooks, you know, let more than... one or two things happen in a scene. You're giving really important information, but it's really a scene about him pointing out the glass. But also, we learn that you had to choose between your parents. It's cool. This was one of the first scenes that we shot, and I had a lot of people whispering in my ear after the takes. It's the first time director syndrome where you finish a take and people are like . And I remember taking a little walk with John, and he said, you know what? It's really cool you got all these people looking out for you, but the best directors I've worked with, when a take is over, they're looking right in the eyes of their actors. That communication never stops, and that's what it's about. Because your actors are out there throwing down for you, and they want to know that they're being watched and directed. Oh, that's cool. And I remember that every day I direct. Wow. So thank you for that. Wow, that's major. I love that we hug and we kiss. There's no doubt. Yeah, right, right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you just sort of make the decision at the last second. Yeah, like a kid. How was Lloyd? Lloyd was such a gentleman. He was funny and nervous and strange. And he's been up all night. Yeah. Which is great. Freak. Because he's such a freak. He just wants to smuggle her out. He just wants to smother her. He wants to smother her, but I think he also wanted to smuggle her out of a compromised life. The Sugar Ray Leonard? That's good. The Sugar Ray Leonard. So good. Come on. John Mahoney giving us a little shadow. Yes. Lloyd is doomed. Sugar Ray Leonard used to do that after every... Meaning that she made the second date of... I think it was Sugar Ray. It was Sugar Ray. It was some great fighter. These are such great hanging out and... Look at Joe. Joe's in every frame. There's Joe. Joe. He's got that nervous talking thing. Nervous talking thing. I told him not to speak. Hey, I know this is a strange thing to say, but maybe Diane Court really likes Lloyd. I just remember that, you know, when you do any sort of movie, that's a relationship movie. It's like, you know, you sort of form these special relationships, at least on the good ones you do. And every one that I've done that I think is memorable or still kind of is around later. You know, there's so many things. You know, a movie comes out and people call it an instant classic, which of course is the definition of insanity. How can anything be an instant classic? But the films that last for a while, you always, you had these special relationships with people and you form them. You know, it is almost like a, You know, I got to date Ioni in a strange way. We sort of bonded. You and I bonded. Yeah, it really felt like we were falling in love. And also, Diane and Lloyd are like really good friends as well, which is kind of sexy. And we became friends. Do you feel like when you see each other, this is a... This is a couple. I mean, how... In a lot of people's minds, you guys are and were a real couple. What does it feel like when you see each other? Just, I don't know, sort of like always great. Yeah. We're just always... Yeah. Like, if we don't see each other for a while, we just pick up right where we left off whenever we see each other. I mean, I feel like it occurred to me at the time, like, why aren't... Well, I had a boyfriend, and you had just fallen in love for the first time. But... It feels like in another life, we would have been this great love. But we did it here. Yeah. Forever. Forever. Let's talk about the scene for a second. This, to me, defines... First of all, you have all the characters, the main characters. It's a lot of... interactive, detailed stuff that's really fun to see. But at the heart of it, I think, is this speech that, John, you and I worked on pretty much on the spot. And this is the scene that became, I don't know, it's one that people remember, the bought, sold, and processed speech. Because just as he wanted to have Lloyd have, like, a political awareness and a world awareness. He used to say the world view. The world view. He used to say, what is his world view? His world view you had written out, and it was a number of pages. A manifesto. It was a fucking manifesto, and it had in it, I don't want to buy, sell, or process. Or process things bought or sold. Or sell things bought. bought processor. So you had written this and we, we like kind of culled it down. Cause originally the scene is basically you saying, I love your daughter. Right. You know, just blurting it out. And, um, so we had the, we had this speech that you and I worked on in the trailer before we did it. And it's, it was so fresh that we fumbled a little bit as we went and I used the fumble to, And all the stuff that was fresh and spontaneous. Yeah. And then after he goes off and has his sort of rambling political kind of worldview, he comes back to, but I can't really figure it all out. I just want to hang with your daughter. I just want to hang with your daughter. I also remember what I loved about the scene, too, was John Mahoney, the father, is treating Ione almost like his wife. That's right. And he says, Lloyd says, oh, that's great that you have that thing, but you can see that... Diane doesn't see it that way, but you can... It's a little... He sees, Lloyd sees it, and it's a little twisted. I think so. That's great. They're all looking at you. When you... When you came to do ADR for the scene, I remember you were a little surprised at the way the scene was constructed. Was it that the flubs felt... I don't want to sell anything, buy anything, or process anything as a career. I don't want to sell anything bought or processed, or buy anything sold or processed, or process anything sold, bought, or processed, or repair... Not integrated? What was your first reaction for seeing it? Well, I think... My father's in the Army. He wants me to join. I think it was when you're younger and you're making films. I can't work for that corporation. I know. That's pure Johnny. I think when you're doing a film and the first time you see it, there's always a lag between your memory of that moment of sort of the creation or spontaneity or when you actually give birth to something that works and then seeing it told in the context of a story and cuts and other reactions, point of view. And I think when I was younger, I was probably just less able to digest that lag between what it felt like to come up with it Setting it into the context of the structure. Maybe in your mind's eye, you think it's all going to play on one close-up, and that's the only thing. So your mind starts to say, oh, they cut away on this line, and that was the important line. I think you just start to be basically neurotic. So if I came in and said I didn't like it, because I think that seems... Beautifully cut. No, I think, like, there's a way you can stumble with your words and find what you're trying to say that's sometimes more articulate than someone that just plops it out like it's a preplanned thing. Oh, no, absolutely. And so I really loved the kind of fumbling eloquence of Lloyd there. And Diane loves it. Yeah. I mean, it freaks her out a little bit, but she loves it. And here, of course, is the Richard Portnow in the IRS office. Entering our story. It's striking me it's a little like Ordinary People where the character that you feel for, you know, someone gets busted for being the bad character in the end. That kind of thing. Ordinary People and Goodbye Columbus were two of the movies that Jim really wanted me to study. writing this. Well, those are good. Those are great. I remember, I was remembering the writing. Perfect on the outside, like the father, and then you see. But even how you had your, even with your father, in that setting, she was looser. She had her hair down. There's strange, kind of, strange character undercurrents to the whole thing, and they said, Lloyd, at the head of the table there. Yeah. I also remember, I always remembered, for some reason, when I was reading the script and doing it, the dialogue was so terrific, because you'd use words like obtain, You know, with the jukebox. And for some reason, obtain was like a jungle jam. I just said, you know, how do you obtain one of those? For some reason, the dialogue seemed to be so endlessly pleasurable. It's you and language. You guys both kind of just grab onto language and make a meal out of it or something. It doesn't always happen that way. I think also that, at least for me as an actor, what I try to do is, there's always going to be If the director is really passionate about it, and if he's sort of in the mix there, and you're talking about things, you're going to take some of, and obviously you're writing this so personally, so I think I probably took a lot of your rhythms. And so those are parts of Lloyd that are you. So what are you doing after work? I usually have a break after the dinner service if you want to stop by. You know, one of the cool things is that we actually got to cover an issue in the movie. as well as tell the story, the whole thing about nursing care and HMOs and all this stuff sort of came to mean more in the media. But I know at the time it was kind of the soft white underbelly of care of our elderly and not a lot of people were talking about it. It was really fascinating to go to nursing homes and actually did show them movies and did all that stuff. And they did love Cocoon. They loved Holiday Inn with Bing Crosby when I would show that movie. But they loved anybody that would go to visit. That's the reason I was... But I'm not sure I'm right. Did you know when you were making it that Lloyd would end up being educational in terms of what women look for in a man? Because I always hear I'm looking for Lloyd. No, I just... I knew that we were seriously trying something. I knew that your passion was character. I knew that mine was. I knew that... I didn't want to do something that was soulless. I wanted it to be a comedy, to be about an optimist, but I wanted to have those bottom notes and that soul. After a while, I knew that we were trying for the same thing. I knew that there was a certain point when Jim Brooks, I think, who really was very protective of the film and great to the film, he was our greatest champion. He also protected the movie at the studio, I know, because there was a lot of stuff early on, like, why does that dad have to be guilty? Oh, yeah. Why does he have to be guilty? If he's not guilty, everybody's having fun. And Jim would be the one that would say, well, there's no movie if he's not guilty. He was great. He was protective and inspiring in the way that you want someone to be. Yeah, and he's fierce, and he wanted to know. He wanted to know why and what. This is all kind of interesting. This was the first day. Oh, yeah. We shot this the first day. I was scared to death. Yeah, I remember. I didn't want to come out of my trailer. It was like, we filmed the first day. It was like, hey, that's lunch. I'm like, hey, everybody, thanks. I went in my trailer, and I did not want to come out. I was so terrified. This was the first scene I shot. This is so funny. We shot this wide shot. This shot was the first shot of the movie, the first shot I ever did as a director. And Johnny did it, and you're standing there, and it all looked great. And I just kind of went off to the side, and I said, well, it's good. Are we done? And somebody said, no, you of course have to cover the scene and do different sizes. I'm like, oh, yes, yes, of course, of course. When's lunch? And you guys... It's about aliens who go to outer space. I hope I'm not giving anything away there. Yeah. And old people. Old people who go out of space. Old people who go out of space. Were you thinking that they'll like it because they're old? Which is so stupid. And this is so funny because this is like that life that's sort of embarrassing and weird. And, you know, I'm showing you my weird world. And you're kind of just, you know, it's all testing. Yeah. See if he's going to. Yeah. I think I'm a total geek. This we did later, right? Yeah, we came back and did this later to... I think to consolidate some story notes, some story ideas. No, we didn't do that later. That was during the first run. I do know this. This part of the movie and then where we go to after this, this always reminds me about being in love. and makes me feel like the first time I was ever in love, which I'll always feel as long as I see the movie. And were you guys in love at the time? Not with each other, but in your own lives? You were. No, I think you were. You were. I mean, I think, you know, not sounding... I guess you can't not sound too Bravo Channel about it all when you're doing one of these, but... the risk of sounding very Bravo Channel. I think the part opens up, opens you up, or when you do a part, it opens you up to parts of yourself that, you know, maybe are dormant. And so this actually, doing this guy really, really opened me up. I was really, like, turned on in the scene by you in the scene. Oh, no, yeah. Because I was crossing your lap and everything. No, it was awesome, like, coming and playing with you every day. If we didn't have, like... Boyfriends and girlfriends, this would have been the day we would have gone home together. Cool, cool. I think. Or maybe sooner, who knows? But I never... I think your boyfriend was like, he was like waiting by your trailer most every day. Pretty annoying. But I remember, so for me, I got open to more of the possibility of actually falling in love for the first time. And also of having women friends. Yeah. You know, I think that I had that sort of... I had that in me, but I didn't do it, you know, I didn't do it as much. And then I really started hanging out with women more during the making of the movie. And I was kickboxing all the time, so I wasn't really... I just was... I got inspired by seeing in the reaction women had to Lloyd that, man, maybe they don't need Fabio. You know what I mean? Like, they... They... Certainly they like good-looking... you know, everybody likes a good-looking partner, but somebody that loves them in the right way... Mm-hmm. ...is more exciting in the long run. And Lloyd, just the way... Just the body language right there, too. Yeah, see, and the way... She appreciates the way he just looks at her and has fun with her. Yeah, that's the ultimate. I mean, it takes a really, um... a really strong, like, heroic person to get to that point. Or a healthy person or something, I mean. And that it's so romantic, because most people think that's kind of unromantic. Well, it's like, usually I think a lot of times in movies, passion goes to the geek that's never going to get the girl, and then it's on the responsibility. It's the responsibility of the girl to decide that it's okay to love a geek. But Lloyd's not a geek. He's just a guy that loves women. And he's passionate, and he's also an athlete. I love this scene. This is day for night, parked out in Malibu. Now we're on a stage. Remember that one, you had that one screening to see how the audience response? And you had in one take so much fake sweat that the audience was like, thought that your character was dying. Remember that? Yeah, that's right. It was like, but wait, I thought we were going to find out the conflict was that... Lloyd had, because there was just one shot that you had just like so much that they just thought it was a sick character. Well, that probably happened because I don't know how much I was ever looking at the sweat. I was probably just looking at how amazing you are in the scene, Ione. This is like kind of a... This was my first real kind of love scene, and I just thought you guys made it so... real. And you both look great. But better yet, you're acting it so great. I felt like I was a fly on the wall a little bit. Well, I remember it's, you know, I think so much of film is casting chemistry and script. And of course, that's the most obvious thing anyone's ever said. But I don't think if I was making the movie with someone other than Ione, we would have been as good as it was. I mean, at least from my end. We just have that chemistry. And also that scene was so beautifully written. Thanks, brother. Thank you, brother. Well, that happened to me. I shivered. Oh, yeah. I shivered. And I think when you're really doing a scene that's great, it's just sort of like a jazz music. You can, you know, you know where the... The stanza begins, and you know when it ends, and you know when the bass is going to come in. But within that, there's endless variations of what you can do, because the dialogue was so precise. And so you could see Ione, and we would just get into a flow and go with it. It was such a kind of fun scene to do. A lot of times when you do love scenes, and they're very technical, and they're not very, they don't feel very passionate, or they feel strange. And that one felt like, it just always felt pretty authentic. Yeah. It really did. Just personally, it's one of those things you always keep way down deep inside. I remember finally being in a situation with the girl that I really, really, really wanted to be with. What about this scene, though? I know. I'm going to wrap this up quickly so I can talk about this scene. But I shivered, and she felt protective of me, and I was so embarrassed about it. I was embarrassed for a very long time that I was just so unused to being in this position with something that's unattainable that I shook. It was a great thing to be able to write it one day and have you guys turn it into a scene that we can talk about right now. I'm still a little embarrassed about it, frankly. But moving on. This is an amazing moment between father and daughter. And Diane is so guileless in this scene. She just wants to share and take dad up on his offer to say anything. that she rocks him to his very core. And I never get nervous around him. I also remember loving Woody Allen's movies so much and I saw the dailies of this and I thought, you know, this reminds me of like Hannah and Her Sisters or something that's kind of shot inside a home and it's got a lot of warmth but a lot of deep stuff going on too and it's funny. Mahoney as a character, I should say James Court as a character. By the way, my dad used to always answer the phone. Jim Crow. So I gave that to him. But the shade of his hair dye keeps changing throughout the movie, which is another part of his deception. He dyes his hair. This guy that says, let's be real with each other. Let's take care of old people. He dyes his hair. He has a secret life. He's a little bit too much involved with the life of his daughter. And you're about to shake him up pretty good. Then I attacked him anyway.

It always feels good to tell you the truth. Because if I can't share it with you, it's almost like it didn't happen. Did you sleep with her? I remember the first time we saw the screening, she said, I attacked them anyway. I remember the crowd, because Jim wanted us to see it with the full crowd. He wanted to see it with the full crowd. They pretty much just started cheering. They did cheer. I remember that. I remember shooting this in Voltage Guitars right off Sunset. I love Lily. Lily's... You had sex. Everything changed. You had sex. Well, I believe that. I really believe that. That's like, people pretend to have casual sex, but it's never casual. It's never, ever casual. Well, that goes with the old adage that everything counts and everybody knows everything. Well, well said. Above all, just because this happened... That's on Sunset. That's just off Sunset. And Lily, to her credit, kind of took the look of Corey from Nancy Wilson. Oh, nice. And I was just telling Nancy the other night, you have a real fashion sense, don't you know? Oh, yes. Even going back to Lily as Corey. She's like, well, thanks. But it's true. That's how my wife still dresses. Kind of long coats and boots and rocker warrior goddess. You and Nancy have stayed looking exactly the same. It's amazing. Thanks. This is great. I've never gotten a letter like that of you. So what do you think? I think Lily really shows that love. She's so moving. Both for Lloyd and Johnny in such a great way. You guys still buds? You and Lily? Mm-hmm. Cool. I haven't seen her in a while. That's right. Hair's a little different color. John Mahoney used to say, look, it's your first time. I want you to have a lot of options in the editing room. I'll do it different ways. John, come on, let's do this one. And you would say, let's do a version where we do this. And sure enough, when we got in the editing room, you guys had given me so many different options. This is, uh, yeah. This is where the other part of the story is really kicking in. Maybe I shouldn't go with all that's happening to you. What are your memories of doing these scenes in the house, Ione? I mean, I remember the house was lived in already, which helped. I mean, it really felt like it was full and it wasn't a set. Yeah. Now, let's stop this right now. Let's not put our energy into something ridiculous. This isn't even smart thinking. Dad, why are you acting this way? Is this because of the other morning? Do you love him? I like him a lot. Well, listen to me. I know you like him. I love that cut, the G marks. Yeah, come on. Honey, after the excitement wears off, then what, huh? I mean, what are you going to talk about? What do you have in common? And, yeah, I was just so involved with the story that really whatever was going on in the scene, I was really feeling so involved. I just think you should break up with him. Unbelievable. This is a nightmare. Diane, you owe it to me. I remember thinking at the time, how did you access a story on a father when you, in fact, had been raised pretty significantly by Enid, your mom? Well, probably just that being raised with a single parent It just, I guess it doesn't matter if it's a, you know, the feelings are probably the same. Being really close. He's manipulating you so big time here. Yeah, I mean, that's, my mother never did that. But I, yeah, no, I just got into the story. I was so there with the story that I don't think I, I didn't pull upon my life at all. It was all there. It was enough. For sure. All he's trying to do here is to get you to break up with Lloyd. And it's such an elegant... The guilt. Guilt trip. I just want you to have everything. Is that wrong? No. I owe you an apology. I've just got a handful of weeks left with you and we should... I don't know. I don't know what I'm trying to say.

What is it like to act with Mahoney, you guys? I've done two. I keep thinking of, you know, jazz music with everybody in the movie and the whole relationship. But no matter what you throw, you know, you're going to get it back. You still come in on time, on beat. I mean, the scene has got a progression. It's got a structure. But within that, you know, there's nothing I ever did that threw John or Ione. I mean, and actually the... With you and I, it always felt like, you know, they just happened to be rolling. Right. That's cool. I thought, when I see Mahoney's face, it's so kind of rich. It must be like the way guys talk about acting with Jack Lemmon or something. Whatever you do, you're looking at that face. Yeah, it's true. It's just filled with so much stuff and compassion. It's so true. Yeah, they actually pay me for this. It's a prime Lloyd scene. in an actual kickboxing studio. I think they tore this place down. Was that in the valley? It was in the valley on Lancashire. Oh, man. Okay. Brutal. The breakup scene. You know, when we were doing the color transfer on this a couple weeks ago, I watched this scene, and it just killed me again. I remember the conversation we had about I remember thinking how genius this whole business of the pen was. The father getting the daughter to give a symbol of not only his enslavement to his daughter and symbol of what he wants to achieve, civilization, upward civilization. But, you know, the whole she gave me, I gave her my heart, she gave me a pen thing, I thought was an ingenious story point thing. But I remember this conversation we were having about The conversation about Lloyd saying that he loves her. Yes. And that I wanted him to do that fumbling talking thing. And he had to dance around knowing that that is a big thing and that has meaning. He doesn't say it like Joe. Or he wouldn't say it anything. It's real. I remember there was a read-through where you didn't want to say I love you. It was like we so didn't want to squander a movie I love you. That it came to that part of the script, and everybody's looking at their script, and it said, I love you, and there's just silence, and everybody's looking at each other, and Johnny said not a word. And later, what we got was a guy saying I love you in a movie, and it meant that much to him, that he wasn't going to say it if he didn't feel it. And he says it here. People say it, and they don't really mean it. And it's so great when you say it. And when you say it, it feels like somebody that isn't glib about it, and she breaks up with you. What did we just do here? Because I'm worried. Did you just break up with me? No. No. It sounded like you did. I think I have a breakup scene in every script or everything that I write. Like shopping lists, I think I have a breakup scene on, you know? But this was the one that captured the great breakup scene that happened and, you know, the one that you think about when you try and write a breakup scene felt like this. And this is the anger that we talked about, the very subtle anger that John brought, because you see he's capable of really acting out in some way, and he doesn't. It's because you're dead. No. Right. He holds back. He gets a pen is what he gets. Why? Did you tell Corey what happened? Well, she figured it out. I'm sorry if that upset you. But you can see it in his mouth. No, that's fine. She'll tell everybody, but that's fine. You can see it in his face, just like you can see the pain on Diane's face. But Lloyd is an athlete. It's just my dad. And you know he has the ability to act out, but he doesn't. You have Corey in D.C. I have my dad. What? I'm sorry I said that. Forget I said it. I said what I thought I meant. And you can't put the genie back in the bottle. It's out. And he thinks it's about that. Talk to me. One party and you're talking like that girl Sheila. Don't be mean. This is hard for me, too. Ooh, Aileen, it's so incredible. Your voice breaks and... then don't do it. This is when we first started showing the movie. People started realizing you were going for the pen here, and they would howl in pain along with Lloyd. And he looks at the pen. Look at the way he looks at the pen. I know, like it's the enemy. What are you thinking during this scene, Johnny? Where are you going to? I'm just in it because when something's really well written and you're jamming with an actor and you feel like you know you have your teeth into it, you just don't let go, you know? So it's not... I don't know if I'm thinking at all. We went back and got this later because people felt such pain over her breaking up with Lloyd, they... They needed an extra moment to cry. It's so awful. Oh, this is great. Remember the Dark Knight Returns or whatever, like all of that inspiration? Yes, Frank Miller, Batman. This is great. And this had more of that sort of angst, music, depression driving. The Lost Highway. Yep.

There's a scene that we cut out because it just didn't work where there's a traffic jam, and I should just shut up. All right. Nothing, I'm just driving around. Weren't you actually talking to Joni here? Yep, you worked that out. She broke up with me. What do I do? You should come back. How can I get her back? I can't. I can't get her to talk to me. I wanted to. I couldn't wait to do this thing. We did that out in the park. I remember. I was thinking about it, too. I remember I just wanted to... I remember I didn't want to get dry. I wanted to stay as wet as I could. I loved it. I loved doing it. I thought it was... I also wanted to... I think I sort of wanted to... I'll be home soon.

It's funny, you know, you write a line like that, but it stays on a page unless somebody can do it like that. I like the twitch here, though. I know, I know. We worked on that. That's right. The kid's twitching. I was so into this movie that I knew all of even your scenes. Because I remember the phone scene, like, the next day, like, how did it go? And you were like, amazing. You know, like, I was even involved with things I wasn't even aware of. Tape heads on the theater marquee back there. You know, it was cool. We had our little family going. I don't remember the time and place when I knew her. This, I must admit, slightly personal. I used to drive by the girl who started my own personal breakup scenes house. And I think this is Nancy and me walking by as extras. There we are. I think we said I wanted to wake... Of course, my favorite line was, we... We met in a mall, I should have known a relationship. That was my bottom end, kind of Lloyd, kind of highlights. But I loved him writing Corey the taped letter. It's so cool. It's so great. And I also love the line at the end, which is, if you start out depressed, then maybe you've got to figure out if you start out depressed, everything's a pleasant surprise. And I remember, by this we were doing, we actually filmed this near the end of the shoot, I'd say three quarters in. And by this time, you and I had the unspoken thing. Where I did a take and I just looked at you and I went, yep. And you were just like, yeah, daddy. That's the one. Or I'd be like, ah! And you'd go, got it, watch, I'll do it. This was a big scene because this was sort of like, staging always was a nerve-wracking thing for me. And one day I came to the set with Laszlo. So funny. I know, that's totally Gerald. And this dude. Bitches, man. Bitches, man. But I came to the set, and I was like, Laszlo, what if we have them like magpies up against the fence, and then they're going to be rapping in the background, and he's, is that cliche? And he's like, no, no, that's good. And this was the scene that the next day Laszlo came to the set and said, I get the movie. Wow. I also remember this was the scene. These guys were great. We were, you know. The boys were in Chicago and you'd met them. And you said, hey, what about these guys for these guys? And we put some riff down. We rehearsed. No, you guys made a film. That's right. We made a tape on it and sent it out to you. And you said you wanted them out there, but the studio didn't want to pay to have them out. So I think you and I flew them out. That's right. That's right. And then we shot this, I think somewhere in the first third of shooting, I believe. After that night. He said, oh, he totally got it. Everything gelled, I think, after this night. When we finished it, I remember we started a night shoot. By the time we started shooting, we were done by 12.30. That's right. We finished really early. We had shot everything we could. We would just take one, take two, this way, and we were done by 1 o'clock in the morning. Look, as to you, I'm not going to be somebody like Diane Corda to kegger. This girl was different, man. When we go out, we wouldn't even have to go out, you know? We'd just hang out. This girl made me trust myself, man. I was walking around. I was feeling satisfied. See, that was your rap about, this girl made me trust myself. I was walking around feeling satisfied, which is an amazing thing that you added that. And it just, I got it, you know? So nice. And originally a script that featured a guy that would never have thrown that bottle suddenly It'd kill me if he didn't throw that bottle, you know, because he's got that inside him. And, of course, here we have Joe facing off with Lloyd with the boys' composition. They don't care. They just had a bottle thrown at them. They're rapping. Just in the Malibu. Dude, I can't do it, buddy. I love that Joe says, I can do anything for you. Just get me Diane. I can't do that. Because that makes it seem even more precious. I just remember the whole reason I was worried about doing it. That was a mistake. I remember the whole reason I was worried about doing the movie was that it wouldn't have enough substance, and of course, you know, it's become the film with some of the most substance I've ever done. You know, that way. Me too. That was pure. That's pure Cameron Lloyd. The new, the power loin, all that stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The rain on my car is a baptism. Yeah. Look, why don't you just... I love this. I left him driving around by himself, you know? And this replacement song killed me. Just... Brilliant. You have to understand, her family is being ripped apart. Like you and she were ripped apart. Ripped apart. Like Joe and I were ripped apart. Johnny and the fishbone T-shirt. Visitor at the home. I'm not going back there. I always thought the Amy Brooks character... Why do you have to be like this? There was a line that was cut where... Be a man, don't be a guy. No, the world is full of guys. Be a man, don't be a guy. But in the alternate universe of the movie, the Amy Brooks character and Lloyd have their own moment down the line. This is my eighth and final call. Oh, here's a great though. The answering machine. I just wanted to say that I thought about everything and I decided something. I'm going to give you another chance. I knew how important, I was also keenly aware of just how important, you know, music was to, I don't know, to all of us. Yeah. At that time, you know. Still. Like, you know, the wrong kind of music in a scene, and we were freaked out. Yeah, yeah. So in which case, it's not your fault, you know. Maybe that's a good side to all this. I don't know. I've been thinking about these things. You're probably standing there monitoring. This is Lloyd's worldview. One other thing. The letter. He's just got all this stuff going on, but he knows one thing. The letter was a mistake. Hello? And this is the beginnings of you realizing a possible manipulation, right? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Ooh, this is also brutal. This one hurts.

This is so great, the way this woman plays the scene with John Mahoney. What hurts most is not that she declines the card or even that their flirtation ends. What hurts most is the pity. The pity! The pity is so brutal. It's like, take everything, take all the money, just please no pity. And she... Oh, this is a guy... Yeah, who is that? This is in the background. This is Tom Lawrence. This is a stand-in. He's one of Jerry Ziesmer's, the assistant director's regulars. And he just kicks ass with that moment. I remember him so well. And what about Jerry Ziesmer himself? Jerry Ziesmer himself coming up, playing a lawyer. Jerry really took care of me, and all of us, I think. It was first-time director syndrome. He needed a lot of protection. Well, he's just... I mean, the man was the first AD on Apocalypse Now. I mean, there's nothing that could possibly happen that he didn't sort of, in some strange karmic way, yawn at. That's true. He came out of retirement to do the movie, and it was like Laszlo said, if you're lucky, you get this guy, Jerry Ziesmer. I go, Jerry Ziesmer? And he goes, he's the man who said... terminate with extreme prejudice in Apocalypse Now. He's also an actor. I'm like, please let me have him. This is a great scene. I remember I was watching that off camera when it was being shot. Wow. John Mahoney cowering in the bathtub. And we were just watching, and it's one of those things where they're sitting there and lighting and setting up. Got an Omni magazine there in the trash. I know, we all watched scenes. I remember watching him prepare. And preparing in between takes and doing those things that actors have to do when people are tweaking lights. And this was an actor-friendly movie, but I just remember watching him sitting, laying in that tub, preparing and thinking, this movie is going to be good. Oh, man. He just keeps looking seedier and seedier. Yeah. And she's growing up. Every scene, she's sort of closer to leaving, you know?

Well, the stories around this song, the placement of this song, those were pretty good. Yeah. We never knew what song was going to work. In the script, it was a Billy Idol song that I liked for like the one day that I wrote the script to be a lover. Well, do you remember if the song playing? It's Fishbone. On that is Fishbone. Party at Ground Zero? No. It was Turn the Other Way. Wow. off in your face. And I remember it was, but it was, and we were, I think we argued about this. Yes, we definitely will talk about it because it'll be fun. But I want you to look at your face and tell me what you're thinking if you can. Because I have a theory and... What's your theory? No, you go first. Well, I might sound smarter though if I comment on your theory. Your theory will be better, but go. I don't think so. I remember thinking that This is like, if you don't do this right, this is the attempt to be one of the great character images. And what I didn't want it to do is I didn't want it to be pleading or sentimental. I thought that the guy knew that there was a lie in Diane. He knew that there was a lie there. And he knew that this wasn't right. So I wanted to make sure that he had that sort of defiance or his pride in an act which is inherently ...open and submissive. I wanted both those things. And I think, uh... So I think I had... I think I went overboard with a darker, defiant feeling. But, uh... That's what I was thinking. That's my theory, too. So anyway, this scene is really great. Philip Baker Hall... ...kicking ass with the eye here. He just brings the hammer down. Yeah, he's intense. Originally, I think we did this with a woman. Right? Didn't we reshoot this? We shot this. We believe that your father operates from a large pool of cash that comes from phony billing, phony patients. We've been investigating him for five years. I loved in the boombox scene, which we can talk about later, I loved that everything... was there in your face, the anger, the fact that you'd been reduced to this, but the nobility, all that stuff. I mean, it was so powerful that no song worked on the boombox until I found In Your Eyes on a wedding tape that I had made for my wedding day. And that was perfect. It was like I drove off in my car. And talking about instincts, all the stuff that we were talking about while shooting. I remember the thing on the boombox, there was a little red light that bounced to a beat. It just happened that In Your Eyes fit to the beats of The Red Light. We had songwriters try and write songs for it, and it just always felt false, because nothing matched what was on film. And I don't know if you remember, but that was the last take of the last day. There was no more after that, because the sun went down. So everything was riding on that take. But I remember I wanted to do it sitting on the car. I resisted it for a little while. We did one. We did one. I think I probably was resisting it until I got myself worked up into the right state. That's probably what I was doing. It was the last possible moment. I know, I probably... But yeah, but I think like your feeling was Lloyd, Lloyd. Well, I don't know. We'll look at some of the outtakes. But this is great, this stuff. This? And when the guy says the look on I's face when the guy says, because he's guilty. Because he's guilty. Because he's guilty. Wow. And then he starts to look, she starts to... The storytelling is really clean. Clean's not the right word. It is. It is the right word. I couldn't imagine how to act this because, you know, what the stages of betrayal are or any of that stuff. How to make that real, I wouldn't begin to know. Tell us about that, Ione. Yeah, I mean, it was funny because I was thinking... I wouldn't care if my father did this, if I was just thinking about me for some reason. But I think I was just resisting, like, how heavy the betrayal and creepiness of it was, you know? But yeah, just everything just meant so much. What? There was our litter of puppies in the drawer there. What do you mean? We still have one of those dogs. Oh. Just a little side. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. 13 years. I always thought you connected to this stuff. I did. I obviously did. You really did. In a pretty primal kind of way. Yeah, I really think I really did. But I know what you mean. Like, if this had happened with my dad, I don't know. Yeah, just think. I don't know if I would have been able to cut him off. But her ideals and her standards are such because. Well, it's not a, you know, it's. It's not the crime, it's the cover-up. Right, exactly, exactly. Wait, that crime is pretty bad. The crime is bad, but she says, you lied to me, in his defense. This is one of my favorite scenes for both these characters. This really is. I make their lives better. And then he looks completely crazy. You really see the whole mask is off. Did you take that money? Sweetheart, no. Don't be ridiculous. I need to know the truth. Honey. I swear to God. I swear to God. Oh, my God. I found the money. Oh, baby. It just drains out of him. Look at that. Ooh, I was a lucky guy that day. What am I supposed to think? Easy how bad you make me, I'm the only dad you got, he says. How do you think that's supposed to make me feel? You think you know what this money is? Yes, I... No, you don't know what it is. It's not for me. This money's for you for when you come back from England with honors to set you up so you don't have to depend on anybody again. How did you prepare for this, Amy? I take better care of those people than their families do. It's just... I care for them. I give them flowers. I feed them. I'm really, you know, just isolated. No, but you stole from them. You know, I... Oh, baby. I just, you know, I really just, uh, focused. I mean, I knew this was it. This was the big... I picked you. Oh. Is this because of Lloyd? I told you everything and you lied to me. I would have done anything for you. That's right, work it out. No, I will. That's right, work it out. This is where the actor is in the zone. This size, this is it. This is where the scene lives for me. Yeah, yeah. The scene lives on this, whatever the shot was, whatever, that's where. And she starts to give into the hug and just for a moment. Oh, man. No, talk, Diane. Wait, Diane. Wait a minute. Now talk. That is Don the Dragon Wilson. Yep. This is great to go to a scene of fighting and energy. That's a great next scene to go to. I was completely hungover that day. Because we're both fighting. You were hungover? Absolutely. If you would have lit a match around me, I would have exploded. Who's that? I went out with Piven and... Ah, yes. Gerald. Nick Carlson. Good actor. Wanted to work with him. Said he'd do that part. Mm-hmm. Lloyd, I'm sorry.

I love that at his greatest moment of joy, it's also one of his greater moments of pain, colliding. My father was guilty. He lied to me. He lied to everybody. I just was so invested in getting you back here. I need you. You do? You do? Didn't we also kind of dig a little bit that there was an American flag behind him? In some Daniel Ellsberg, Reagan revolution way, it sort of made sense. I love you. I just wanted to try that theory out on you. I love you. How many more times do I have to say it? One more time would be nice. I love you.

Please. I love you. And John, I think your resistance to play like easy, romantic moments made it incredibly real. And both of you seem a little battered in this, and that's He's kind of so great. Forget it, I don't care. He can put aside his pain. I love you. Here, I think we get Jerry Ziesmer here cutting the deal. There he is, baby. He's so good. He looks the same, too. Do you still keep in touch with him? Yes, I do. Wrote the foreword for his fine book. A biography. That is another biography. I love how they just don't care. They're just eating, and it's just nothing to them. There it is.

I love that stereo. I also remember, yeah, I was thinking of the army brat thing. I always remembered that I always thought when we were talking about that world view, I always thought Joe Strummer was an army brat, or his dad, you know, lived in different embassies. Living in and out of America would have given him a... Right, that's right. Because I know that if you go somewhere and you not deal with your family stuff, that you're just going to, she's going to... Are you going to England with her? That's one of the things I wanted to talk to you about, sir. Are you? Now, of course, all the dye is gone from John Mahoney's hair. I'm incarcerated. I'm incarcerated, Lloyd. Oh, this is another one where I think I wanted to play it a lot angrier than you wanted me to in the beginning. And once again, the middle ground was where it lived. It's true. I mean, I remember our conversation was... I remember him having the pride when he called him mediocre. But of course you were right to have him take the high ground. The dialogue between us is what created the scene. It helped define what the movie was. I remember you said, this guy's calling me mediocre. I would throw him against that fence. I mean, I would just take him and throw him against the fence. I'm bigger than him. He's calling me mediocre. And we went back and forth about that, and it ultimately came to the thing of, this is the movie about the guy who doesn't throw him against the fence. He takes the daughter to England. He said, he's the distraction that's going to England. I'm the distraction that's going to England, which is more violent. I mean, he would love to have you throw him against the fence and keep his daughter. Yeah, but the dialogue, also, I think the dialogue we had. It just gave him enough... It gave him something to overcome, personally. Exactly. Exactly. And look at how you play it, you know? Yeah, it's way more heroic and... But the beauty, just like holding up the boombox, or even in the breakup scene, which... I mean, he loses it, which is unappealing. He loses it. I mean, even John Wayne doesn't lose it. I mean, you know what I mean? Or Cary Grant. Look at Johnny. He's got all that stuff going on, and he goes for the letter. He's considering, yeah, is this a guy? Am I a guy? Am I a guy? And he says, no, I'm not. Well, because John Mahoney is so, you see how, like, pathetic he really is. And we had different versions of you handing him the letter. We had one where you kind of slapped it on his back, and we had one where it was gentle. Funny how all that stuff matters so much. I don't know which version she said. Also, the thing about versions is pretty great. Which version is this? You can't know the horrible disappointment. I know this part's brief. She can't still be angry. Yeah, this is one of the only scenes It's good either one of us did, really, without I. Yep. She, uh... She makes an appearance here, though. Yeah, the beginning part. Oh, yeah, yeah. This confrontation. Just knowing a version like that exists, knowing that for a minute she felt that... It wanted to be the two of them having this conversation the whole movie. And there they are. It's, uh... Yeah, it's cool. I mean, I obviously wasn't a parent when I wrote this, and now it's funny to watch it now, because we have two little boys, and I think, wow, I can really... See all the stuff that I can see undercurrents I didn't even see when I wrote it. You could have told me. About responsibility, wanting the best for your kids. I'm so sorry. Never knowing who's going to knock on that door. This is a great look when you turn around. I love you, Dad. That's optimism as a revolutionary act. Well, when he tries to comfort him after he's just called him a mediocre fool who's not a permanent part of her life, and he just says, well, you know, the fact that another version exists is good. That was the pure character. I loved that there was an object that Got passed around. I know this was a big one, because I know there were a lot of people who thought they should play in your eyes here. Yes. This is way more exciting. You and I thought that was pussy. We thought that was no good. This gives you a feeling of adventure, and that guitar is so good. And they have their little shake. I should thank Joan for doing this movie. Yeah. And now she seems changed as the sister, like she's going to be less bitter. Came in and did it, yeah. She was affected by the love affair too. Yeah, I think that song more than anything, than any other song, was sort of my soundtrack. Yeah, no, it's just beautiful. On some level. It's romantic. Noble, romantic, and melancholy, which is sort of, you know, in my wildest dreams, the movie that we wanted to make. This is cool. That was my wife, Nancy, passing by. Her torso. I also love this woman that's sitting next to you that's sort of eavesdropping. When Lloyd catches her eavesdropping, he says, How you doing? Very standard for a 747. Very standard. Nice hat. I think you and Polly Platt picked out that hat. I think so. And, uh... I'm still scared of flying. You are? Yeah, it was Jim who told me the story about the ding and when it's most dangerous, so I wrote that in. And I was going over the last draft of the script with Paul Germain, who worked at Gracie at the time, and I was dictating the last scene to him over the phone, and I think there was more after the ding, and I got to the... I was dictating it over the phone, and I got to the ding, and I just realized, that's the end of the movie. So he said, what else? And I said, nothing else. He goes, cool. And that's how we came up with the end of the movie. And it's a little bit of an homage to The Graduate that ends on the faces of two people facing a dare-to-be-great situation. But it ends on them waiting. Yeah, it ends on them waiting. Where's the ding? It's coming. Any second now. Any second now.

That's Lloyd loving, and that's you knowing you found the right person to love you. In a shot, that's the movie right there. Yeah. Pretty cool. Yeah, I remember that a lot of people kept wondering, or even some of their viewers remember at the time, said that they didn't think they would stay together and all that stuff. Remember that? Sheila Benson. Remember her? She used to... Interesting. Yeah. Remember her? She says, oh, what's she going to do when she outgrows him later? Yeah, I remember that, too. Do you remember that one? I remember there was this whole thing. They were like, what did it mean? Pauline Kael got it, though, and I'm always jazzed that Pauline Kael... We did get the great review from Pauline Kael. Before she quit writing reviews, she got our movie. Loved Ione, loved John, got the whole driving, talking into the tape recorder thing. But the funny thing was... In the kind of terror that happens in a studio before they put a movie out and spend all the money to promote it, there was a real feeling at the studio at the time, like, who's gonna go see this movie? Is it for the family or is it for kids? There was a screening, and someone invited a writer who brought his daughter, and they just kind of quizzed them after the screening, and some people decided that it was gonna only appeal to kids. So the movie was never really... Kids? Kids? What do you mean, kids? Teenagers. Like, adults aren't going to want to see this movie. And it's funny because adults were the ones that ultimately embraced it almost before teenagers, you know? But anyway, there was this terrible... Didn't it do all right financially? It did all right, but I think it found its greatest audience on video. But there was this terrible moment, like, before the movie came out, where nobody knew what it was or if it would ever find an audience. It was limbo. And Siskel and Ebert... saw it in Chicago and I was in San Francisco doing like two days of a press tour. I got this phone call in San Francisco and nobody really was wanting to talk to us and stuff. And they said, Siskel and Ebert have seen the movie. They love it. They are giving it two thumbs way up. I was in shock, you know, and I hung up the phone and the phone started to ring. And everybody started to come back. You know, the studio started to come back. We got a release that was okay. Everybody started to have a certain amount of joy about it. The movie started to get seen. We had some press stuff that we did in New York. And I remember on opening night, we walked around New York the night the movie opened. But it was Siskel and Ebert, really, that kind of resurrected the movie from a certain amount of limbo. But I also want to say one thing. But as soon as the reviews came in, though, I remembered. People got it. That was the first major reviewer who really liked it. I remembered it got great notices. It did. There was concern, I think, that like, wow, it's an intelligent movie about young people. Does anybody want to see that? And then the reviewers kind of championed it and said, yeah. And they loved what we tried to do and they got it. I had like a poetic moment because I was on a publicity tour. I remember being jealous because you had like a suite in a hotel in New York, I think, or Chicago. It was like, and then you just ask them. Oh, right. But I was in a limousine leaving one of the... T'was my way. Tiring things. T'was your way. And I was with somebody and I was in a sort of a grumpy mood and it was raining and I was in New York and I was just sort of sulking and the person who was in the car with me just tapped me and I looked out and there was Say Anything in like a line around... It was so poetic, you know, around the block. And I just was like, my mood was completely... I wasn't upset because I didn't think I was just a teenager having like a mood swing. But I'm totally tearing up. It seemed like a lot of people saw our movie in the movie theater. They did, and the fact that we're sitting here right now means that there's still people that connect to it, which is amazing. And I remember one thing from the opening night when we were walking around, and somebody in a bar had seen the movie, and it was a girl. who came up to you and said, oh my God, it's Lloyd. Are you Lloyd? And you had this look on your face that was sort of like, wow, I'm gonna be getting this now. This character's out into the world. And you said, on my better days, yes, I'm Lloyd. And I always thought that was... What a smart ass. No, it was great. And... I actually use the line in Almost Famous when somebody says to Billy Crudup, are you Russell Hammond? And he goes, on my better days, yes. Right, right, yeah. And I always thought that was great. And I just think, like, the experience of making the movie sort of enhanced so many lives because we all threw ourselves into it. And sort of, like, the fact that it came together and meant something to us and to other people, just nobody was sorry. They worked on the movie, which always felt so great to me. Feels pretty nice to... have people like it thanks you guys thank you cool